The Big Story with John Gibson

SHOW: THE BIG STORY WITH JOHN GIBSON

HEADLINE: President Bush Calls Iraq War "The Challenge of Our Time"; Interview with Rep. Dan Burton ® Indiana; Interview with Rep. Adam Smith (D) Washington

GUESTS: Dan Burton, Adam Smith

BYLINE: John Gibson, Wendell Goler

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. ADAM SMITH (D) WASHINGTON: Well, there's part of it is that is resolute and appropriate. I think what Congressman Burton said and what the president said about the importance of this war is absolutely critical. The importance of using the military to get the terrorists before they get us is absolutely important. Senator Kerry has said that. He said it in a speech in Seattle just a few days ago that he will aggressively go after the terrorists and take them out before they get to us.

The question is on the broader policies of how to implement this, and the two big weaknesses that I'm concerned about is how good is this president going to be at building the international institutions that we need? And how good is he going to be at doing the call it nation-building, if you will, that we are doing in Afghanistan, and Iraq and elsewhere. They've certainly made a number of mistakes in both of those areas that I think makes the job that the president correctly laid out tougher than it needs to be.

GIBSON: Congressman, is that nibbling around the edges instead of ...

SMITH: I don't think so at all. When you look at what's going on in Iraq and some of the difficulties we've had, because of the lack of international support, because of the security situation falling down much more so that the president and the Pentagon participated. That's not nibbling around the edges. That's live ...

GIBSON: Congressman, the president did an interview today with the French newspaper "Paris Match." And he said I was never really mad at Jacques Chirac, and Jacques Chirac was never really mad at me. We just had a simple disagreement. Do you believe that, or is he President Pinocchio today?

BURTON: I think the president is being political and very diplomatic. The fact of the matter is we did have differences with Germany, and Russia and France, but the fact is the president at the very beginning went to the United Nations and reached out to them and our allies to try to find a unified approach to dealing with Iraq, and they turned their back on the terrorist threat.

SMITH: I'm sorry.

BURTON: They turned their back on the terrorist threat a number of times, and the president, once again, through Colin Powell, is reaching out to the U.N. for a resolution that will bring everybody together and finding a solution for the long-term dealing with Iraq and ...

GIBSON: Congressman Smith, I'll get you on that, but let me steer you just a little bit. There is this UN resolution moving through now. Now, a lot of Americans involved in the negotiations think the French, and the Germans, and Russians and the Chinese who are trying to take the spoils of war in Iraq in a war they didn't fight and take it away from the United States.

SMITH: there's no question there are agendas here that are not in the best interest and we need to push the appropriate agenda. What I really want to seize on is the inaccuracy of saying that we went to the United Nations first.

GIBSON: Sure, we did.

SMITH: Let me make the point. I'll tell you what I'm talking about if you'll give me a second. In August and September of 2002, before we started pursuing the Iraq policy, when the president was launching it, he gave a speech about how the U.S. has the absolutely right to act unilaterally.

GIBSON: Yes, it's the new national security policy.

SMITH: That is true, but that is the way we launched the Iraq policy.

GIBSON: By the way, John Kerry agrees.

SMITH: We did not-we-absolutely. But it is not the way the president should have launched this particular mission. We did not ...

GIBSON: Yes, but Congressman Smith ...

SMITH: We did not go to the UN until Congress insisted upon it.

GIBSON: Wait a minute. I actually wrote a book that involves some of this.

SMITH: Good.

GIBSON: He went to the U.N.. He got 1441. He got Syria and France to go along with it.

SMITH: Not first.

GIBSON: And then when he went back to seek a war resolution, France said, no, we'll veto.

SMITH: That much is true. But here is the critical point. The rest of the world does not believe that the president's first inclination was to get international support, does not believe that his first inclination was to solve this peacefully. And the reason they don't believe that is because in August and September long before the November speech, he and the vice president were going around talking about we can do this unilaterally, we don't need to go to the U.N. The first resolution-the first resolution ...

GIBSON: I remember all of that. Congressman Burton, respond to that will you.

SMITH: Did not ask for us to go to the U.N. It didn't get ...

GIBSON: Congressman Burton, is it important to go to the U.N. or ultimately it just doesn't matter?

BURTON: I think it's important to try to get as many countries involved as possible, but we were attacked. Our country was attacked, 3,000 Americans were killed. The worst attack since Pearl Harbor, and the president said we're going to deal with this problem. Now, we would like to have the U.N. working with us, but if we have to go it alone we will. That's what he said. And I think every American agreed with that. Every American agreed with that.

SMITH: That's not what he did. Look at the first Congressional resolution.

GIBSON: I have to thank Congressmen Adam Smith and Congressman Dan Burton. I appreciate both of you.

SMITH: Thank you.