MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

Interviewer: Rachel Maddow

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Joining us now is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island. He‘s a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee. It was a big day on that committee today, which we‘ll talk about in a moment.

Senator Whitehouse, thanks very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Good to be with you.

MADDOW: Senator Durbin says this could be illegal. Senator Kent Conrad says it‘s a serious breach. Senator Debbie Stabenow says it‘s very serious. Senator Feinstein says it‘s a big problem because the law is very clear.

Your colleagues are speaking out about this loudly and firmly. Are you also concerned that this is a major problem?

WHITEHOUSE: I think—given the scope of some of the other problems that we‘re looking at, with the Central Intelligence Agency, in particular, the torture investigation, I don‘t know if I‘d call this a very major one. But it certainly merits inquiry to understand why it is that President Cheney decided to order this to be kept from us, if that is true—that‘s a press report—and to assure that that‘s not continuing to happen.

Now, the CIA—we think, and I think the American people expect—should be subject to the laws of the United States, which include the requirement you read that they disclose to certain members of Congress their covert programs.

MADDOW: The 1947 National Security Act, I‘m no expert on these things, I know that you were a U.S. attorney before you were a U.S. senator. You‘re much more qualified than I am to judge these things—but it does seem that the law in this case is clear and direct.

I mean, if what Director Panetta told the committee is true and there was an overt order for Mr. Cheney to keep this from Congress, does he have any legal wiggle room? Is that a matter of negotiation at that point? Or is it a rather clear-cut matter of the law?

WHITEHOUSE: I would think it‘s a rather clear-cut matter of the law. The question then would be: what is the remedy? Every violation of law is not a criminal offense. And you have to—if you wish to proceed as a criminal matter—find a charge that applied to that situation. And it could be that there is none.

MADDOW: There have been some calls for the Senate Intelligence Committee to investigate this matter. You‘re a member of that committee. Can you tell us if there are plans at this point to investigate? Would you support that?

WHITEHOUSE: I think, in the exercise of our oversight responsibilities, it is very important for us to make sure that this is not a continuing problem with the CIA. It is of some concern that this came up at the last minute. Apparently, Director Panetta was very rapid in bringing it to our attention and trying to cure the illegality.

But it‘s not exactly heartwarming to think that the director of the CIA, for many months, was unaware of the program himself. What happened to the meeting when he went into his guys and said, "OK, folks, I‘m the new director here, what do I need to know? What‘s going to get us in trouble? Bring me up to speed. I don‘t want anything going off under me that I‘m not forewarned about"?

I can‘t believe anybody as sophisticated as he did didn‘t have that—as he is—didn‘t have that conversation and it‘s hard to believe that didn‘t come up then.

MADDOW: Finally, Senator, I know that it was a very big day on the Senate Judiciary Committee which you on—which you serve. How do you think the day one went for Judge Sotomayor today?

WHITEHOUSE: I think it went fine. I think that Lindsey Graham for instance saying she‘d have to have a complete meltdown in order to not be confirmed is a sign of the position that the Republicans are in, in terms of trying to stop her.

I think that she‘s in a very, very good position to be confirmed, and that a great deal of what‘s going on right now is positioning for the next nominee and fighting for the vision of what a United States Supreme Court judge should think like and look like, with the Republicans fighting very hard to try to normalize the right-wing infiltration into the judiciary they‘ve accomplished over the past couple of years.

MADDOW: When you say "look like," do you mean to imply that they‘ve raised the issue of her gender and her race against her?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, they‘ve tried to sort of set as what‘s normal and as the sort of basic benchmark—the almost exclusively white male, six out of eight right now status of the court, and they have tried to suggest that when she says she brings a different perspective, and that‘s a sign of a problem on her part.

And it is a little odd that her perspective should be a problem but the perspective of six white men should not be a problem. I think everybody brings that perspective. None of them are a problem. And it‘s the combination of those perspectives that makes a better court.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee—I know it‘s been a very long day for you, sir. Thanks very much for making time for us tonight.

WHITEHOUSE: Thank you. Good to be with you.

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