MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. SCHULTZ: I've got to tell you, I'm on fire about this one today. I did three hours of radio on this. And I am trying to restrain myself right now, because my friend Tom Daschle is saying that a public option must be scrapped. Daschle is pushing a bipartisan compromise. It's a plan cooked up by himself and former rightie senators -- Bob Dole, of course.

He says -- this is what he says about it: "We've come too far and gained too much momentum for our efforts to fail over disagreement on one single issue."

Tom, what in the heck are you talking about? I'm biting my tongue right now. Here's the deal. The American people want this. There's no -- how can there be disagreement on a public option when the people have already spoken with an election and in the latest poll?

Look at this latest new NBC News poll. Seventy-six percent of Americans think it's important for people to have a choice of both a public and private health care plan.

Now, hold it right there. If it's the day before the election and you hear on the news that 76 percent of the people favor this candidate, and then that candidate doesn't win, are you going to think that there's something fishy out there? Seventy-six percent of the people think a public option has to be a part of this package.

So here's my question. Are the Democrats going to be this spineless all the time? Are they going to have weak knees until they get maybe 65 or 70 votes? Now, when you talk about percentages, give me a number. Do you need 80 percent or 90 percent or 99 percent before you decide that "Hey, maybe we'd better do this for the people; maybe the people really have spoken"?

I'm telling you, the inside-the-Beltway folks are really misjudging what the people want. And the Democrats have got to get their act together and recognize that the American people want this. They don't care about insurance companies. They don't care about big pharma. They don't care about HMOs. They care about coverage.

I'll tell you what, I could be really done with the Democrats if they cave. And I'm starting to think they don't want 60 votes. They don't want Al Franken in the United States Senate, because, you see, then they might actually have to do something for the people.

Joining me now is independent senator from Vermont Bernie Sanders.

Bernie, obviously I'm boiling about this. And I know you're a single-payer guy. Let's put that aside. But how do you take Tom Daschle, who was going to be the secretary that deals with this, but he had some issues, of course -- his statement, does it have any impact at all? And does this mean it's over for the Democrats when it comes to a public option?

SEN. SANDERS: Ed, you didn't have to have me on the air. You've already said it all. I have nothing more to add. You're absolutely right.

The fact of the matter is, A, if you really want to solve this problem, you need a single-payer system. B, if, for whatever reason, you can't do that, at the very least you need a strong public option in 50 states in this country in order to keep the private insurance companies somewhat honest in order to give the American people a strong set of benefits that they can afford.

SEN. SANDERS: Senator Sanders, what is wrong with President Obama? And I'm asking that up front tonight. He's got a high approval rating. He's got 76 percent of the American people that want a public option. I haven't heard one Democrat in the Senate come out and say, "Damn it, we're going to get this because this is what the people want."

SEN. SANDERS: Well --

MR. SCHULTZ: What's wrong with the Democrats?

SEN. SANDERS: No, no, no, no. Remember, there are two committees dealing with it. One is the Finance Committee, and I'll leave Mr. Baucus to explain his position to you. On the Health- Education Committee, what you are saying is what the vast majority of us absolutely believe.

Here's the bottom line. We have, with Al Franken coming on board, 60 votes. We can kill a filibuster and we can come up with a strong piece of legislation which covers all the American people, which has a public option, and that's what we have to do.

What some people are saying is, "Oh, we need a bipartisan piece of legislation. We have to tone it down. We have to make it more conservative," despite what the American people want. That makes no sense to me at all. The question is, can we get the 60 votes for cloture? And I think the American people demand it. We certainly can. And then we have a strong piece of legislation.

MR. SCHULTZ: I have to ask, Senator, can you give us an idea what life would be like if the Republicans had 60 votes --

SEN. SANDERS: Oh --

MR. SCHULTZ: -- if the Republicans had the White House, if the Republicans had the House and if the Republicans had 60 votes in the Senate? What do you think the country would be like? It just seems to me that the Democrats are afraid to take the Republicans to the fire wall on the most important issue to American families. And I don't know. Do they need 80 percent, 90 percent, 95 percent of the people to (vote something ?) on this?

SEN. SANDERS: Well, here's the point. I think, Ed, you know, you're asking exactly the right question. But I think it's not that they're afraid of Republicans. The real issue is the power and the money of the private insurance companies, of the drug companies, of the medical equipment suppliers, which then takes you right into the issue of the need for public financing of elections.

But, having said all of that, in terms of public policy, a strong public option is absolutely right. In terms of politics, of doing what the American people want, a strong public option is what we've got to do.

MR. SCHULTZ: Senator Sanders, great to have you on with us tonight.

SEN. SANDERS: Good to be with you, Ed.

MR. SCHULTZ: You speak clarity where it needs to be spoken, my friend.

SEN. SANDERS: All right. Keep up the good work.

MR. SCHULTZ: You bet.

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