MSNBC "Interview With Senator Charles Grassley" - Transcript

Interview

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MS. MITCHELL: Senator Chuck Grassley now joins us live from the Capitol. The senator is the ranking Republican on Finance, overseeing health care reform legislation.

But first let me just ask you quickly about Iran. Senator McCain and other Republicans have been critical of the president for not being more outspoken against what's going on in Iran. The counterpoint, of course, is that the U.S. has to be very careful not to inject itself into this. Where do you come down?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, I come down at America's democracy. We brag about spreading democracy around the world. There's voices for democracy in Tehran speaking up, wanting an election to count for the way it's supposed to count like it does here in the western world. And I think if we don't let them know that we're supporting democratic principles and do it just in a black-and-white way, that we're missing an opportunity.

Now, I'm not going to criticize the president because I think foreign policy ends at the shoreline. But I do think a more explicit statement of support for democracy and for the ability to demonstrate and to do everything to make sure that elections count are something we ought to make a clear voice on.

MS. MITCHELL: But, Senator, I want to talk about health care. And I know you've been the point person on that. But, first, on this subject, isn't it possible that if the U.S., if the president is more outspoken, that it would give the Ayatollah and others in Iran a way of criticizing the United States and rallying people against the U.S. and get -- let themselves off the hook?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Yeah. You know, I've stood behind that statement in agreeing with you. And it might sound contrary to what I said because I've been in that position throughout a long period of time because we thought young people wanted to do something new, wanted a new direction in Iran. And we've been pretty laid back in regard to their help.

Now we have an opportunity where they've gone forward. It seems to me that we need a stronger voice right now than we've heard so far. And I'm not saying that you do anything that upsets the opportunity to negotiate as the president wants to do. But this is people putting their lives on the line in Iraq -- or in Iran -- and if we don't stand behind people that are willing to put their lives on the line for free elections, honest vote counting and democracy, then where do we have credibility anywhere else in the world? We did it in the Philippines, we did it in Poland during the Reagan years and we did it in Bosnia within the last 15 years. We wouldn't be doing anything different than if we stood behind the Iranian young people here.

MS. MITCHELL: Let's move on to health care then. Let's talk about what was announced today at the White House, the president announcing the deal with the drug industry and with the AARP to cut costs. Let's watch what the president had to say. I want to get you to react to it.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Yeah.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: (From videotape.) -- it draw on the health care system by $80 billion over the next 10 years as part of overall health care reform. Now, drug and insurance companies stand to benefit when tens of millions more Americans have coverage. So we're asking them, in exchange, to make essential concessions to reform the system and help reduce costs. It's only fair.

MS. MITCHELL: Now, the CBO has estimated that the cost of this health care proposal would be $1.6 trillion over the course of a number of years. That is a far bigger number than a lot of people had suggested previously. Do you think that this announcement today is a real saving? Is this something that you can put in your pocket?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, let's hope so. And it is a step towards the money -- at $80 billion, a big step towards the amount of money that has to be raised. But here's what I keep in reserve when I see big pharma. Remember, they're the retail association or the association for all of the big pharmaceutical manufacturers. Whenever I see them saying that it's a good deal, and they're joining in, I just wonder. They're going to look out for themselves. And I can't believe that somewheres along the line, the taxpayers aren't going to get hooked for something here or consumers generally for higher drug prices in the future.

So I haven't had a chance to look at this. But that's how it hits me just cold.

MS. MITCHELL: Okay. Senator Grassley, I know you've got to go. But, at this point, if you were going to predict, do you think that there will be health care voted on by October, as the president said?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Yeah. Well, you know, every other interview you and I've had on this subject, I've said this week we were going to mark-up. Well, we got this heavy score back from CBO. So we have to dial things down and fit them into a smaller number. But I'm still hopeful that we can get a bipartisan agreement. If we don't get a bipartisan agreement, then I don't think anything's going to go. And, of course, if we're going to get a bipartisan agreement, we've got to get one that a lot of Republicans can go for as well as Democrats.

MS. MITCHELL: And what do you -- what do you think should be scaled back in order to come up with an agreement acceptable to Republicans?

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, one of the big items to scale back is scaling back the subsidy for people that don't have health insurance. We're going to probably, at the lower end of the income scale, subsidize not quite as far up as we had originally intended.

MS. MITCHELL: All right. Thank you so much, Senator Grassley. Always good to talk to you.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Thank you.

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