MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript
Interview
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MR. SCHULTZ: President Obama wants to get health care done this year. He told Democratic senators they need to put together a reform bill by August. Gosh, that's a short window of opportunity, isn't it?
But what does reform really mean? Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus told the president to consider taxing health care benefits. That's not the kind of reform I was looking for, and I don't think it's the kind of reform you were looking for.
But there was at least one real voice of change in that meeting that took place yesterday -- Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, long- time supporter of single payer.
Senator, good to have you on tonight. You also had an important meeting today with Max Baucus.
Where does the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee stand on single payer and public option? And I know you brought some advocates of that side of the table to the meeting today. What happened?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, it was a good meeting. We brought some of the leading advocates of single payer into Senator Baucus's office. It was a good discussion. Needless to say, he has not changed his view. But what I am trying to do is at least get single payer on the table so that the American people can understand why we have the most costly system in the industrialized world and, at the same time, have 46 million Americans without any health insurance, more who are underinsured.
Ed, we have got to get to the root cause of what's going on in this country in terms of health care, and that has to do with the very negative impact that private health insurance has on our entire system. While health care costs are soaring, the private health insurance companies are making huge profits. They're paying their CEOs on average, for the major companies, $14 million a year. And they're costing us hundreds of hundreds of billions of dollars in terms of needless and useless bureaucratic waste.
MR. SCHULTZ: But Senator, if it's what the people want, why can't we get it passed or at least on the table? You mean to tell me that the pharmaceuticals, big pharma, HMOs, insurance companies, they are so powerful that they can intimidate senators to the point that this is just the card that we're dealt with and nothing's really going to change? Is that what it comes down to, the lobbyists and the power there?
SEN. SANDERS: That's what it comes down to, to a very significant degree. It comes down to the fact that the insurance companies, the drug companies, the medical equipment suppliers, are spending -- have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in recent years in campaign contributions and lobbying. They have enormous power, and despite the fact that the massive amount -- the vast majority of the American people want real change in the health care system.
MR. SCHULTZ: Sure, they do.
SEN. SANDERS: Of course they do. They understand the system is not working. I'm afraid the special interests here in Washington have just a great deal of power.
MR. SCHULTZ: It's unfortunate. You know, you think about where we are, Senator. We have gone through eight years of the Bush administration not addressing any of this other than to tell us to go out and get a health care savings account. We go through an exhaustive presidential process. And now we're told we've got 60 days here, now or never? Is this how it works?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, I think what you will have to look at is what the end product will be. Now, I share your concern about this being a very, very short window. And as soon as I leave this program, I'm going back to the Health Committee meeting to continue discussion of what we'll be seeing.
But the bottom line is the American people have got to weigh in on this debate. In my view, we have to end the role that private health insurance are playing in our health insurance system today. We've got to move toward a cost-effective, non-profit system, which is Medicare for all, I think administered at the statewide level. And if you do that, we can provide, without spending one nickel more, comprehensive health care to all of our people.
MR. SCHULTZ: That is very true. We're not saying that enough, that's for sure. And your definition of public option as to what they're talking about -- what kind of public option is Max Baucus talking about?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, I'll let Mr. Baucus speak for himself. What I'm talking about is something roughly equivalent to Medicare right now and opening up a Medicare-type program for all Americans.
MR. SCHULTZ: To give the private sector competition.
SEN. SANDERS: Well, more than competition. I think that a Medicare system can be a better system than the private insurance, because the administrative costs would be substantially less.
MR. SCHULTZ: Doesn't sound very encouraging, Senator.
SEN. SANDERS: Well, the fight is not over. And I think if the American people get involved in this struggle, to say that at the very, very least we want a strong public program, I think we can make some good progress. If we move on primary health care, get more doctors out there, more community health centers, we can make some progress; quality control. There are opportunities to make some real progress.
MR. SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, always a pleasure. Good to have you on tonight.
SEN. SANDERS: Good to be with you, Ed.
MR. SCHULTZ: Thanks so much. Keep up the fight.
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