MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

MSNBC "Morning Joe" Interview With Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL)

Subject: Nomination of Judge Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court

Interviewers: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Mike Barnicle

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MS. BRZEZINSKI: With us now, Democratic senator from New York and member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Charles Schumer.

SEN. SCHUMER: Good morning.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Also with us, Republican senator from Alabama and ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Jeff Sessions.

Thank you both for joining us.

SEN. SCHUMER: Morning.

SEN. SESSIONS: Morning, Mika.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Senator Sessions, we'll start with you. Any concerns about the nomination of Judge Sotomayor for the Supreme Court?

SEN. SESSIONS: Well, I think there are concerns, but I'm committed to giving her a fair hearing in the Committee, giving her full opportunity to answer the concerns that have been raised.

There were 29 votes against her confirmation previously, so there's some unease out there among senators. But I do think we should start afresh, give her a full opportunity to explain any difficulties or questions that have been raised.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Senator Schumer, what's your take?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, first, Jeff is right. People who don't know her well -- should be asking. That's their obligation, to ask questions and fully disclose her record. And I know Chairman Leahy's going to give a full and fair hearing.

And Jeff Sessions, he's a fair guy. I think he's going to approach this in a fair-minded way.

I think when they learn her record they're going to find that she's great. She's legally excellent; she's right at the top of her class, both when she went to Princeton, summa cum laude, Yale.

The Yale Law Review. You know how you get on there? It's blind. They don't know who you are. They don't know your name; they don't know your background. You just -- you write 10 essays, and -- you're number eight? Oh, number eight gets on. Okay.

And then on the bench, you talk to lawyers who've opposed her, her colleagues on the Second Circuit; she's top-notch legally. She's also a moderate. The headline of Business Week this morning, "Moderate on business" decisions. On crime, I tend to be fairly tough on crime; so is she.

And so she is clearly in the mainstream. She has -- and then, of course --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Well, what about the Connecticut case? Obviously a lot of concern about that.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: That's the one that everyone's looking at.

SEN. SCHUMER: I know it. Now, there are a couple of things about that case. First, it was a unanimous decision of the three; (no one ?) wrote it.

But second -- and here's a big difference -- it was the City of New Haven that requested not to use the test. And in a certain test, she wasn't being an activist by overturning the City of New Haven.

Had New Haven said we want to throw out the test and then they were overruled, it would be far more a case of activism.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: She deferred to elected officials.

SEN. SCHUMER: She deferred to the elected officials. Now, look.

Every elected -- every mayor has trouble in these things. You want to have -- you want fairness and you want to have a greater representation of minorities. It's not an easy decision, and she deferred both to the precedents on the Second Circuit and to the City of New Haven.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: I want to hear from Senator Sessions on this, but first, Senator Schumer, do you have concerns, though, pertaining to that case? Does it give you pause, why everyone's looking at it? Does it make sense to question it?

SEN. SCHUMER: This is -- let's say -- there are a couple of things. First, we have made great progress in race relations in America and in anti-discrimination, being against discrimination.

We're not fully there yet, and so the law is evolving. And I think it's a very hard decision as to how to make it --

Nobody would say we should have any major department in any city be all white. How do you get there without hurting people who are qualified? The courts are evolving on this. This is --

That's why the Supreme Court took the case -- this is hardly clear-cut -- because of the progress we've made.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right.

Senator Sessions, any concerns about the Connecticut firefighters case?

SEN. SESSIONS: I think it's something that she has decided, so it'd be appropriate for us to look at. The -- those questions are very important, because whenever you advance one person affirmatively, you discriminate, in effect, against someone else who maybe had a better position to be hired.

So those questions are -- have got to be dealt with, and we'll evaluate whether or not she was within the mainstream of the law or whether she was in error in that case. The Supreme Court will, I guess, decide it before long.

Those are some of the things that we need to look at.

I'm also concerned that the president said he wants a judge with empathy on the bench -- is this a judge who's going to apply empathy on the United States Supreme Court -- which I don't think is a legal standard, but it is a political, emotional standard, really. It's certainly not a judicial standard

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, look --

SEN. SESSIONS: So those are things that we've got to deal -- dig into.

SEN. SCHUMER: Okay. Let me just say Jeff is right to ask these questions, and they should be fully fleshed out. This is an important decision and, again, we intend to be fair and give the Republicans every opportunity to explore them.

Let me say this: Number one is to be within the rule of law, no matter who you are, where you come from, et cetera. She has shown that for 17 years on the bench. Almost nobody says she's outside the mainstream.

Okay --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: But she does talk about making policy from the bench -- (inaudible).

(Cross talk.)

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, but then there's the second -- Axelrod brought this up, and I think the rug is going to be pulled out from under. You know how politics is these days.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right.

SEN. SCHUMER: Someone who's against you takes half the statement. It's happened to me; it's probably happened to you.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: You mean us? Yeah.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Right.

(Cross talk.)

SEN. SCHUMER: And here's the other half of the statement: I am not promoting it and I am not advocating it. That pulls the rug out from under it, and I think David Axelrod mentioned that. So she didn't say she was for that; she just said some people think that.

But here's what I'd say about empathy: First, rule of law. That's the most important thing. She's within that.

Second, legal excellence; she has that. Third, I prefer moderation. I help select judges on the courts in the -- federal levels in New York. I reject judges far right; I also reject them far left. Because if they're on either side, they tend to want to make their own -- put their own views in.

So she meets all that.

Now, to have a different background, that's a good thing. Do we want nine justices all with ice water running through their veins? Do we want nine justices all who came from the same exact background, whatever it is? Of course not.

So your life decisions --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Like Harvard and Yale. You're right; let's spread it out.

SEN. SCHUMER: Okay, okay. (Laughter.)

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Jeff Sessions, let me ask you how Republicans are going to treat this --

(Continuing laughter.)

SEN. SCHUMER: Princeton! Princeton! (Laughter.)

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Yes, the Tigers.

MR. BARNICLE (?): (That's ?) diversity.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Yeah. But again, Harvard or Yale. Everybody on the Supreme Court, from Harvard or Yale.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: And all the past presidents --

MR. SCARBOROUGH: So let me ask you, Jeff Sessions, how Republicans are going to treat this nominee.

In the past -- and this is just a matter of fact -- Democrats have savaged some Supreme Court justices. Republicans have been very critical, but in the end they've always voted -- whether it's Ruth Bader Ginsberg or Stephen Breyer -- voted for Democratic nominees in an overwhelming (sense ?).

(Since ?) you yourself know better than most about how tough this process can be for a conservative jurist, how do you suspect Republicans will end up treating this nominee?

SEN. SESSIONS: I think we're going to treat the nominee very well and fairly. I hope that when it's over, Joe, that the American people would say this is the best, most rigorous, the fairest hearing that they've seen.

We have a responsibility to do that. And, of course, with Chuck Schumer there defender her, she's going to be well defended.

SEN. SCHUMER: (Chuckles.)

SEN. SESSIONS: But she does have to answer some questions, and we should not confirm somebody to the Supreme Court that will allow political, personal, or emotional issues to influence the decisionmaking.

This is the Supreme Court of the United States that sets the law for America. I think judges -- or, lawyers that I talk to are appalled by the concept that you would have a judge using empathy as a basis to win their decisions.

So those are questions that we've got to get into.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: All right. Senator Jeff Sessions, thanks for being with us. And Roll Tide.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: (Laughs.)

MR. SCARBOROUGH: That's a Southern thing, by the way, Chuck.

SEN. SCHUMER: Yeah, I know. Crimson -- they're Crimson -- there's some Crimson in that Tide, isn't there?

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Some Crimson -- (laughs).

SEN. SCHUMER: George Wallace came up to Harvard, and he said, what's the -- when I was there in the late '60s. What's the color of Harvard? And they said, Crimson. So he said, isn't that red (pronounces with drawl)? And the dopes at Harvard didn't say, you mean like the Crimson Tide, Governor? It drove us crazy.

(Laughter.)

SEN. SESSIONS: Roll Tide.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: Roll, Tide. Exactly.

So what do you think -- 80, 85 votes in the end? What's the over-under?

SEN. SCHUMER: Look, if they have the hearing that Jeff mentioned -- and again, I think that's their intention, the Republicans' intention; rigorous but fair -- she'll get a lot of votes.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: "Morning Joe," placing the over-under at 85. At 85.

SEN. SCHUMER: Lot of votes. Lot of Republican votes, yeah.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Well, it's the Yankee thing that may be a problem.

MR. SCARBOROUGH: It is.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Senator Schumer, thank you very much.

And Senator Sessions, we'll see you Sunday on "Meet the Press," I take it. See you then. Thank you for being on the show.

END.

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