FOX News "Your World" - Transcript
Interview
FOX NEWS CHANNEL "YOUR WORLD" INTERVIEW WITH REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY) INTERVIEWER: NEIL CAVUTO
SUBJECT: PORK-BARREL SPENDING AND EARMARKS
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PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: (From videotape.) An economic recovery plan that is free from earmarks and pet projects.
(New video.) This bill does not have a single earmark in it.
(New video.) Not a single earmark.
(New video.) Without earmarks or the usual pork-barrel spending.
(New video.) I'm proud that we passed a recovery plan free of earmarks.
(New video.) Pork-barrel spending in Washington is fraught with abuse.
(New video.) The earmark process has been abused.
MR. CAVUTO: That was then, this is now. President Obama maybe only days away from signing a spending bill up to its ears in earmarks, about 9,000 of them -- bipartisan, I should point out, half from Democrats, half from Republicans. My next guest, earmarks and all, supports the bill, though. Greg Meeks is a Democratic congressman from New York.
Congressman, that's a lot of earmarks. The president said there would be no earmarks. What happened?
REP. MEEKS: Well, you know, it depends upon one's definition of earmarks. I personally don't think that earmarks are a bad thing as long as they are transparent. Because sometimes when you talk about earmarks, what is an earmark? Is an earmark something that's vitally needed in a community or district that, you know, helps education or helps infrastructure or something of that nature? You know, so I know, for example, delivering something or something going into my district that will fix some sewage problems so people are not flooded. You may call that an earmark, others will call it infrastructure that's vital to the community.
MR. CAVUTO: No, I wouldn't call that an earmark. I'd call a water park an earmark. I would call, you know, something where you're investigating kleptomania an earmark, though it might be well-suited in this legislation. That's a kind of earmark. I understand what you're saying, Congressman, that earmarks are in the eye of the beholder. One congressman's pork is another man's vital program. But the president seemed to know what an earmark was and vowed we weren't going to see them. Now, in the stimulus measure, we had bunches of them, but they weren't called earmarks. Now in this measure, we have close to 9,000 of them, and they were called earmarks. All I'm saying is the American people are looking at this, Congressman, and saying, stop the nonsense. And you guys don't stop it, you just keep doing it.
REP. MEEKS: Well, I think the problem has been in the past, and things have changed drastically, and I think it was wrong, people would add something to the bill in the middle of the night, and no one would be able to catch it until the bill is passed. It did not see the light of day. It was not transparent.
MR. CAVUTO: Well, just because a lot of this stuff did, Congressman, doesn't make it any less sinful. Just because you get gouged spending in there in the light of day doesn't make it any less gouged spending.
REP. MEEKS: But the point is by it getting the light of day, then those projects or those that may not meet the smell test, you know, because it's not a done deal yet, this is a proposal --
MR. CAVUTO: Oh, come on. You think the president's not going to sign this?
REP. MEEKS: Well, I think that there have been negotiations and we're talking. The stimulus bill, for example, changed after, you know, both sides got in there and worked together and talked it out.
MR. CAVUTO: The only big one that I know that was taken out of the stimulus was the whole honey bee thing and there might have been a couple of others. But by and large, a not of nonsense stayed in.
REP. MEEKS: Well, you talk about the honey bee, you talk about the mall.
MR. CAVUTO: My point is this that, look, I'm wondering why, as we show some examples of this stimulus pork, and we could go on to show the spending package pork, is the president just acquiescing to this because he needs you guys going forward, and he's got you on a promise that you won't keep doing this nonsense but he just needs you just as President Bush needed Congress on a lot of this spending stuff in order to get continued finance and supporting of the Iraq war?
REP. MEEKS: I think that President Obama is making a significant change in Washington, D.C. We've never functioned in this manner that we've had before. We've never had the transparency that we've failed to have. We've never had it. We've never had the light of day on projects for the American people.
MR. CAVUTO: In the light of day and transparency up the ying yang, you've got the world now can see all this abuse and nonsense that we pointed out. Now, I commend you for honestly pointing out where the money is going, nonsense and all, but that doesn't excuse the sin when you just reveal the sin, right?
REP. MEEKS: Well, I don't think that it's nonsense. I think that much of the money, just about all of the money is going to something that different communities in different parts of the country vastly needs. It is part of the stimulus, the economic stimulus of creating jobs and helping people so we can get through these rough times that we're currently.
MR. CAVUTO: Oh, come on, Congressman. You are a very smart man. When you get even members of your party, sir, saying, look, we only have about $8 billion worth of this stuff in this measure, as if it's a bragging point, only $8 billion of wasteful spending, as if it's something to be macho about and to brag to your friends about, then that is screwed up. That's screwed up, right?
REP. MEEKS: I don't say that is wasteful spending, like I said, because many of what you would call pork or you call earmarks are projects that are vital to various communities. And they're creating jobs and they're keeping people afloat in this time of need that we're currently need.
MR. CAVUTO: All right. When we commit money to stop bullying -- and no one likes to be bullied, and everyone has horrible memories when they were a kid if they were bullied -- I mean, that might be vital to those who are bullied. But in the scheme of things, who is that going to stimulate?
REP. MEEKS: If we're putting money into projects and those projects are causing or keeping teachers employed or keeping people who are fixing infrastructure and that's stopping people's homes from being flooded, even though it might have been using your term, quote- unquote, "earmarks" --
MR. CAVUTO: How is the bullying thing going to stop the flooding and the teachers --
REP. MEEKS: -- then it's a positive thing.
MR. CAVUTO: You're okay with all of this? You're okay with the 7.7 billion (dollars). You think it's all honky dory.
REP. MEEKS: Well, what I'm saying is I know that what we have here is we've got to have some short-term pain for long-term gain. We've inherited a tremendous budget deficit. We've got two wars that are going on. We've got a financial crisis that's going on.
MR. CAVUTO: All right. But do you compound a deficit creating a doubling-down, a new one? I mean, you're quite right to mention that the abuses of the prior administration and party, spending upon spending upon spending, but you guys seem to be saying, you know what, we can do that one better, we can waste even more than you can waste.
REP. MEEKS: No. What you've got to do sometimes when you inherit and you are in deficit, as you are, you have a plan. You have a plan on how you're going to pay back. You may have to borrow some money so you don't go to into bankruptcy.
MR. CAVUTO: Congressman, this isn't a plan. This is a cookbook of trouble.
REP. MEEKS: You may have to go deeper in debt. But what the president's plan also shows if you look at his budget, right now we inherited about 9 percent of GDP. He's going to reduce that by 2012 to 3 (percent).
MR. CAVUTO: Not if he's doing this stuff. Congressman, love you dearly and you're a patriot --
REP. MEEKS: By half.
MR. CAVUTO: Yeah, but you know what? He's not going to get there doing this. You know that. And when you guys can say, all right, well, you know, you might call them earmarks --
REP. MEEKS: We've got to survive.
MR. CAVUTO: But you know, you know, you know, you know, if the Republicans pulled this, you would say, hey, hey, stop, stop, stop. But now since you guys are pulling it, with some Republican help I might point out, now it's not, it's not what it appears to be.
REP. MEEKS: Neil, when you are in debt and you are in trouble and if you still have worthy credit, sometimes what you do is --
(END OF AVAILABLE AUDIO.)
END.
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