Transcript: Sanders on Countdown with Keith Olberman

Interview

(MSNBC)

Date: 03/26/2009

To watch video of the senator's appearance on Countdown, click here.

OLBERMANN: All the things America voted for, all the change and hope and "Yes, we can," America wanted when it elected Barack Obama, do not come magically with his inauguration. They come only with a fight.

In our fourth tonight: The main event -- the reason for President Obama`s big publicity push, the battle over the budget, which if it fails to pass Congress, takes with it change, hope and "Yes, we can."

Today, the president went to Capitol Hill to meet with members of the Senate Democratic Caucus, one of whom will join us momentarily, some of whom are not 100 percent onboard with Mr. Obama`s plans. Many of whom concerned about the recent congressional estimate, that the Obama budget will deepen the deficit worse than originally thought.

One of the main players, Senate Budget chairman, Kent Conrad of North Dakota, defending the Senate version of the budget, pointing out that it keeps Obama`s big priorities alive. But as you`ll notice, he says his budget makes them possible as opposed to say, makes them happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KENT CONRAD, (D) BUDGET CMTE. CHAIRMAN: We have attempted to preserve and I think have preserved the president`s key priorities. That`s what he asked me to do when we got the reforecast of reducing our dependency on foreign energy, excellence in education, health care reform - - all of those are possible to move forward in the budget resolution that I have written. They are all in deficit neutral reserve funds, which means those initiates will have to be paid for. But, that was always the president`s intention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Obama`s budget director, Peter Orszag, declared the Senate and Obama budgets if not twins, then at least blood kin. But the White House, nevertheless, is now e-mailing supporters to get them to push Congress.

Liberal progressive groups pursuing the same goals: Move On with the radio ad, Americans United for Change is paying $700,000 for an ad pressuring Congress to back Obama`s budget. The ad does not name names but if the gentleman from North Dakota, Senator Conrad, had any question who that ad is targeting, it will air in 11 states and in major markets in those states such as Fargo and Bismarck.

As promised, now, one of the senators participating in today`s meeting with President Obama, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, also a member of that budget committee.

Much thanks for your time tonight, Senator.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Great to be with you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: First, if you would give us your read on this meeting today with the president. What is his approach here?

SANDERS: Well, I think the president was very thoughtful and what he said basically is, "I ran to change America. I`m going to keep the promises that I made to the American people. We are going to provide health care to all people. We are going to become energy independent. And we all are going to make sure that we reform education and make sure that all of our kids are able to get into college."

You know, I find it interesting, Keith, that Obama is being criticized day and night for the crime of keeping his campaign promises.

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: And I guess people aren`t used to that. But I think it`s a good idea and I`m strongly supportive of what he is trying to do.

OLBERMANN: Senator, the reporting on this varies widely. Can you characterize what the gaps are between the Obama budget and the Senate Democratic budget proposal?

SANDERS: Well, I think the key issue here is going to be the issue of what`s called reconciliation. And bottom line, what that means, Keith, is whether we can pass important legislation with 50 votes or that we have to go to 60 votes, which means we need -- the Republicans can filibuster and defeat us or they`re going to water down any substantive piece of legislation. I think that`s the key issue.

OLBERMANN: David Axelrod was on last night, right after the president`s news conference, and at Chris Matthews` behest, I asked that very question about budget reconciliation. And he said this is a process question, it`s not foremost on the minds of Americans. But essentially, as you suggest, it precludes a Republican filibuster.

In the House, Congressman Spratt made his successes on health care using it in the same way. So, the same question that I ask Mr. Axelrod, I`ll ask you, Senator. Is the Senate going to wind up using the reconciliation version or the straight 60-39 vote version?

SANDERS: Well, if we have to go to 60 votes, either nothing happens in terms of health care or it is a very weak proposal which may not be worth even doing. And I would say the same thing with regard to global warming.

My hope is, we will use reconciliation, I think, in the House. At least, in health care, we are expecting to see reconciliation. And I find it interesting that our friends in the Republican Party are saying, oh, reconciliation, it`s terrible, the idea of 50 votes and a majority actually carrying major policy. Well, you know, when they passed Bush`s tax breaks for billionaires, you know what they used? Reconciliation.

OLBERMANN: Yes. And they`ve been using it off and on since 1980. So, we`re going to go into that in-depth later in the program. But something else, there is a quote in "The Atlantic" magazine from unnamed White House official who says these pro-budget ads won`t hurt, won`t help.

I mean, what do you think on this? Should the president`s supporters be calling their congressmen and senators` offices and saying, "Look, this is what I voted for, don`t screw this up"?

SANDERS: I think so. I think what we need to never forget, Keith, is that here in Washington, we have enormously powerful special interests. You know, the financial institutions in the last 10 years spent $5 billion so that we can deregulate Wall Street, and that got us to where we are today. The insurance companies and drug companies spend huge amounts of money keeping us the only nation the industrialized world without a national health care program.

So, what we need to combat that enormous power of the big money interest is a strong grassroots movement.

OLBERMANN: Is it ironic that perhaps one of the benefits here right now or one of the things that might tip this in the balance of the forces of good is that Wall Street is, in fact, showing a few signs of life? Could that make an argument for Senator Conrad that nobody else could?

SANDERS: Well, I think it is. And I think -- by the way, these things are going to go up and down. And I think that anyone who thinks that we are in the midst of clear-sailing is wrong. We have an enormous crisis on Wall Street, major economic problems, terrible health care problems, et cetera, et cetera.

But I think what people respect about President Obama is that he is willing to deal with the real issues facing our country, unlike Bush who pushed them under the rug and kept telling us to recall how strong the economy was just before it collapsed or else took us in the wrong direction. And I think people respect Obama is willing to be straight with them.

OLBERMANN: Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent from Vermont -- a pleasure to see you last week in Los Angeles, sir, and great thanks for your time tonight.

SANDERS: Thank you, Keith.

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