MSNBC "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

MSNBC "COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN" INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-RI) INTERVIEWER: KEITH OLBERMANN

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MR. OLBERMANN: Joining me now, as promised, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

Great thanks for your time tonight, Senator.

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: I'm delighted to be with you, Keith. Thank you for the invitation.

MR. OLBERMANN: The memos in a moment; first, the truth commission. Is this going to happen? And what is the next step to getting there if it is?

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: I'm not sure whether it's going to happen. I hope that it does. Whether or not that particular truth commission happens, between executive oversight, criminal prosecutions, congressional oversight and your work of the fourth estate, this must and will get out. But I very much hope that a truth commission is a part of that.

MR. OLBERMANN: As for what it might or would look like, so many of your colleagues -- Senator Feingold said this yesterday -- do not support blanket immunity. Should any compromise on this include any immunity? Is it touch and go? Should there be some sort of calibration on this in order to get to the truth?

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: I think there needs to be very careful coordination between the commission and between the Department of Justice on immunity. And no truth commission should be granting immunity unless they've cleared it with the Department of Justice.

What you don't want to do is step in the way of a potential prosecution and interrupt it by giving people immunity improperly. They should have the power to grant immunity, but it should be restricted and required to be coordinated with the prosecutive power of the Department of Justice.

MR. OLBERMANN: Now about the John Yoo memos. Let me re-read that quote from this international human rights lawyer, Scott Horton. "We may not have realized it at the time, but in the period from late 2001 to January 19th, 2009, this country was a dictatorship. The constitutional rights we learned about in high school civics were suspended."

Senator, do you agree with Mr. Horton?

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: It was bad. I've been drilling into OLC for some time now. I've described it as Dick Cheney's little shop of legal horrors. And this recent disclosure only makes it worse.

The difference between America, a country of laws, and some tin- pot dictatorship where everybody does what the generalissimo tells them is institutions like the Office of Legal Counsel, which are supposed to do their duty, which are supposed to follow the law, which are supposed to be driven by principles higher than the urgencies of the moment.

And for them to have rolled over and allowed themselves to be told what to say, and to do so in ways that are just flagrantly apart from really any defensible legal theory, really shows how bad things got. And it really helps make the case for why we need this kind of investigation. This kind of stuff can't keep happening in America.

MR. OLBERMANN: Senator, if you've drilled into it and you've looked at these carefully, as you say you have, does it suggest that maybe a truth commission might not be enough and that we might actually have to have a special prosecutor? Would you support that idea?

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: I think it may be early to talk about a special prosecutor, and a special prosecutor would probably want to have a lot narrower focus than the broad look at the issues that we're talking about in the truth commission. But nothing, I think, should prevent a special prosecutor being invoked at the appropriate time, and I would not be surprised if we got to the point where that was appropriate.

MR. OLBERMANN: Do you have a bearing -- do you have a sense of the president's opinion about this and where he's going to wind up on it? Because I don't want to say he's been evasive in giving an answer about it, but he has certainly not committed himself. Do you think he should support a truth commission if there is no blanket immunity, if the possibility of prosecution is built into the equation?

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: I think the president is doing the right thing, focusing as hard as he is on the economic troubles our country is presently embroiled in. People are really hurting, and they need to know that President Obama is working as hard as he can for them.

I think it's appropriate for him to let us in Congress begin to sort through these issues, decide a little bit more clearly how much we're going to do through congressional oversight, maybe let the Office of Professional Responsibility at the Department of Justice come out with its opinion on the Office of Legal Counsel, see whether the Department of Justice is going to go forward on any of these things, let us come up with how the commission will be shaped, and then he can enter the debate at that point.

I think he's being prudent. And I think we have some work to do ahead of us. I hope very much that where we end up is a joint effort that President Obama supports so that we can go forward, clear the decks, let America know what happened, and put these unfortunate days behind us.

MR. OLBERMANN: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, great thanks for being so forthright and so direct and for your time tonight, sir.

SEN. WHITEHOUSE: My pleasure. Thank you.

END.

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