MSNBC "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. SHUSTER: We are looking also tonight at a live picture of the Senate Chamber right now, where the final vote on that $787 billion stimulus bill is expected to be as tight as it gets. Three Republicans crossed the aisle, bringing the current tally to 57 yea votes, 37 nays. Right now the Senate is waiting for Ohio Democrat Sherrod Brown. He will essentially be the 60th vote later tonight. He's flying back from his mother's memorial service.

This was an emotionally filled day on the Senate floor and on the House floor as Democrats expressed their passionate views on this bill.

(Begin videotaped segment.)

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): A trillion dollars is a terrible thing to waste. But that's exactly what this bill does.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D-MT): The cost of inaction will be paid by the heartache of millions of families plunged into economic hardship.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS): This bill remains a honey pot for too many special interests. It reinforces a growing and dangerous mindset.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY): When we meet you halfway, don't give us the back of your hand and say it is not bipartisan.

(End videotaped segment.)

MR. SHUSTER: Joining us now from Capitol Hill, Republican from Wyoming, Senator John Barrasso.

And Senator, what would it have taken for you to support this bill?

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, all of those speakers were right. It's a honey pot that went much too far. It was much too expensive. A trillion dollars is a terrible thing to waste. And they should have met us halfway -- halfway of the spending amount, $400 billion, not $800 billion.

To me, we should have done what Alice Rivlin, who advised Bill Clinton, said, which is do what's going to stimulate the economy as an emergency and do it now, and do it quickly, and then be more thoughtful about some of these other issues.

MR. SHUSTER: Well, what was some of the spending that you thought that was not stimulative?

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, I mean, they're talking about rewriting education, energy, health care. We could have done that over the next couple of months. There was a front-page story in The Wall Street Journal today and it talks about a $7 billion program. They're going to be lucky if they get that money out eight years from now. That's not going to stimulate the economy today.

You needed things today as part of an emergency package, a much smaller package to stimulate the economy, because every dollar in this package that doesn't stimulate the economy is just an extra dollar that we're going to be borrowing from the Chinese, and our kids and grandkids are going to have to pay for it.

MR. SHUSTER: A lot of the Democrats, though, are arguing that every dollar in government spending on something like education, building schools, greening office buildings, that that is, in fact, employing somebody. Here was what Senator Olympia Snowe, a Republican colleague of yours -- here's what she said on "1600" last night, and I'll get your reaction.

SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE (R-ME): (From videotape.) Republicans, Democrats and independents almost universally believe we should have a stimulus package. Economists of all political and philosophical persuasions believe that we do. So the question is the content and the composition. I happen to think it strikes the right balance. It's not everything I would want. It's certainly not perfect. But the fact is, inaction is not an option at this point in time.

MR. SHUSTER: Are you mad at your Republican colleague, Senator Snowe?

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, I agree with her that inaction is not in order at this time. But all of this action, this extra action, this extraordinary spending -- this is the largest spending bill in the history of the United States. We're shooting all of our bullets. If it doesn't work, we're out of ammunition.

I think we should have done this in a more measured way, a more thoughtful way, and really focused on what they talked about from the beginning -- something that was timely and temporary and targeted. This is establishing a lot of new programs that are going to be with us forever at a much higher level of spending.

MR. SHUSTER: What about the -- are you just as concerned, for example, about the trillion dollars that the Iraq war is going to cost that's also going to be put on future generations? I mean, I just want to make sure we're sort of intellectually consistent here.

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, we're intellectually consistent. This was a bill that was rushed through the Senate and the House right now. You're talking about something that, in just the last two weeks, we are spending more than what you just described that we've spent since 9/11.

I don't think it was well thought out to make this decision this quickly when we could have done a more temporary and targeted, smaller package and then come back to look at all of these things. You're not going to be able to reinvent energy, education, health care, and do all of that in such a short period of time. It is going to be very difficult --

MR. SHUSTER: Well, that's a great point, except, of course --

SEN. BARRASSO: -- to get this -- go ahead.

MR. SHUSTER: Well, it's a great point, except, of course, the difference being that, you know, a trillion dollars spent in Iraq doesn't have quite the same impact on our economy as a trillion dollars spent in the United States, right?

SEN. BARRASSO: Take a look at the front-page story in The Washington Post today, and it talks about money that has been stripped out of this that were the things planned for jobs. I think they took out a number of the things that were going to do what we needed to do for the economy -- fix housing first. They took out the $15,000 tax credit for home buyers and for first-time home buyers and they reduced that number. That's what got us into this problem in the first place. And instead we have all these problems. You just ran a whole list of all of the different programs that seem very wasteful.

And what we really should have done is given it at least another week; have the members take this massive bill home, take it home with you on the plane or the car or the train, and then talk to people at home over the next week and then come back. And if you do that, I will tell you, this bill wouldn't have passed the House or the Senate if the members had a chance to go home.

I went home last week to Wyoming, the weekend before that, and I talk to people all the time at home. And I'm not convinced that enough members have been doing this with this package, because if they hear from folks at home, they're going to trim this -- they would have trimmed this down by a significant amount.

MR. SHUSTER: Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. And Senator, good of you to join us. We appreciate it.

SEN. BARRASSO: Thank you, David.

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