MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

MSNBC "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS" INTERVIEW WITH VIRGINIA GOVERNOR TIM KAINE (D), DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN INTERVIEWER: CHRIS MATTHEWS

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MR. MATTHEWS: We start with Democratic Party Chairman Tim Kaine, the governor of Virginia.

Sir, at 5:30 tonight the U.S. Senate is going to vote. It's going to be a procedural vote, but it's going to tell us everything. Sixty-one votes they're expected to get -- three Republicans, 58 Democrats; no Democrats against the bill. By the way, Ted Kennedy, despite the bad shape he's in, is showing up to vote. This is it. This is big casino.

Why did no Republicans support the president? And do you think the president made a mistake trying to get Republicans and not simply saying, "Go ahead, make my day," like Clint Eastwood, "vote against me and I'll destroy you"?

GOV. KAINE: No, the president did the right thing by reaching out to Republicans. And I'll tell you, Chris, it's working outside Washington. As I talk to people in Virginia, Republicans and independents are very supportive of this stimulus, the need to get the economy going. So he may have had a hard time getting folks in the House on board, and they seemed to take pride, even called themselves insurgents, who were trying to disrupt him. But it's not working out in the hustings.

People know that the situation is urgent; 1.2 million jobs lost in this country in the last two months. They don't want to see a Washington that's about the old rules of gridlock and obstruction. They want to see action. And so the president has been right to reach out, because even if he's had a hard time swaying folks inside the Beltway, he's got a lot of supporters outside the Beltway. And I think that will enable him to go ahead and get those 61 votes tonight and then get a strong vote on the conference report when it comes out from the committees later this week.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, you're right on the numbers. He's got the Democrats behind him. He's got the independents. He's got 67 percent of the country as a whole. Here's the president today out there in Indiana.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: (From videotape.) Look, it's not perfect, but it is the right size. It is the right scope. Broadly speaking, it has the right priorities to create jobs that will jump- start our economy and transform this economy for the 21st century.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, The New York Times had the numbers right today. The unemployment rate rose, by the way, up there to 7.6 percent, which works out to 11.6 million people unemployed. But the underemployment rate, which includes, in addition to the unemployed, part-time workers who can't get full-time jobs, also jobless workers who've given up looking for jobs, that number is incredible. That's up into the 20s. It's 22 million people right now who are basically not fully employed -- 13.5 percent, 22 million people.

Do you think the president has gotten that point across, the real horror of what we're facing out here maybe six months from now, a year from now? We could go into a depression. We don't know that, do we?

GOV. KAINE: We don't. And he is making this very urgent. I mean, when you think about, in the last three months, 1.8 million jobs lost, that's as if every job in the state of South Carolina disappeared, just in the last three months. And so we have got to do something -- these targeted tax cuts, infrastructure spending, and helping people with unemployment and Medicaid so we can get this economy going again.

And I do think that the people have gotten the message. Chris, just in Virginia, which you know well, our unemployment rate is still a couple of points below the national average, but in the last year unemployment claims have tripled at the same time as declining revenues are causing us to have to reduce staffing in our unemployment comp offices. This stimulus package has money to extend unemployment benefits, and so we can start to hire workers back that can process all these applications that are coming in.

And Americans feel this. In fact, it isn't even so much a matter of the president telling them. They're seeing it in their own communities. And then they watch Washington and they see, you know, one entire party in the House vote against stimulus without having a real idea about what should be done, and they just shake their heads. They can't understand it. We've got to see action. And I'm glad the president is out on the road getting that support from the American people to go ahead and make this thing happen.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, what do you make of the fact that the president had a bad week last week? What do you make of that? You can't call it a good week. Is he having a hard time? Is this a shakedown cruise? What's going on here? Because you make the point pretty well, but the fact is we've had a week of Tom Daschle and other problems, and it hasn't worked out in terms of getting that -- I still have a hard time getting a crisp argument.

What part of this stimulus package is relief -- unemployment extension, COBRA -- in other words, health care for people who are unemployed -- aid to the states and the cities? How much of it's actually going to create jobs in terms of real recovery? And how much of it is going to change things like the green jobs? He hasn't sort of explained, "This is for relief. This is for recovery. This is for reconstruction." He hasn't laid it out like the way Roosevelt used to do it.

GOV. KAINE: Well, and let me tackle that one, and we can talk about what kind of week it was. I mean, the package clearly has three pieces, and it's been the same three pieces, a balanced approach that he's talked about from the start.

The first piece is tax cuts to working Americans. If you're a working family making less than $150,000, you're going to get a tax cut. And there are also some tax credits so you can put your kids through college. Those dollars will go into the economy so people can pay their bills, put food on the table, pay tuition and start to spend again.

I hear the Rs say that they don't like -- you know, there's not enough tax cuts. I sometimes feel like it's not a tax cut to them unless it's going to one of the biggest companies or one of the wealthiest individuals. Ninety percent of American families will get this tax cut. That's a good thing. That's number one.

Number two, we're spending on infrastructure, traditional infrastructure -- roads, bridges -- but also alternative energy projects, greening buildings so we can save on energy. That will put people back to work immediately, but build that longer-term platform for success.

And then, finally, let's make sure that we're taking care of these people who are getting hammered by these job losses with unemployment insurance and Medicaid program; three basic elements. That comprises the overwhelming majority of the bill. Each of these elements are things that Americans support and really need right now.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, here's the president playing defense on some other elements of the bill. Here he is defending the bill against its critics -- President Obama today.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: (From videotape.) Understand, this bill does not have a single earmark in it, which is unprecedented for a bill of this size. It does not have a single earmark in it. So we may debate -- we can debate, you know, whether you'd rather have this tax cut versus that tax cut or this project versus that project. Be clear, though, that there aren't individual pork projects that members of Congress are putting into this bill.

MR. MATTHEWS: It does seem, Governor, that he's following what we call in football -- and you know the term -- prevent defense. He's saying, "Okay, we can argue about the yardage here."

GOV. KAINE: Right.

MR. MATTHEWS: "We can argue about the details. But don't tell me we don't need something big and we don't need it fast." That seems to be his strategy today.

GOV. KAINE: Absolutely. It is. And I think it's important. My wife is the prettiest person I know. She doesn't change if she puts on a color of nail polish I don't like. She's still a beautiful lady. You know, people are picking out minor details and trying to use that to paint a picture of this bill.

But those three core elements -- you know, tax relief for working Americans, infrastructure spending to get the economy growing again, and Medicaid and unemployment insurance to help people get through these hard times -- those are the basics of what the Americans expect -- the American public expects us to do, and they expect us to do it right now.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, thank you very much, Governor Tim Kaine of Virginia, the chairman of the --

GOV. KAINE: You bet, Chris.

MR. MATTHEWS: -- Democratic National Committee.

END.

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