MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

MSNBC "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS" INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR JACK REED (D-RI) INTERVIEWER: CHRIS MATTHEWS

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MR. MATTHEWS: Senator Jack Reed is a Rhode Island Democrat.

Sir, is Barack Obama the man he said he was in terms of change we can believe in? Is he going to shift away from the Bush policy, the Bush doctrine, or not?

SEN. REED: Absolutely. He's already begun the process, I think, by selecting a team that is pragmatic and realistic and not ideological. And I think that's the first point of departure in shifting away from the policies of President Bush and his colleagues over the last eight years.

MR. MATTHEWS: Can we kill this Department of Homeland Security title? You know, there's something vaguely ideological about homeland, fatherland, motherland. We grew up in this country with the civil defense. Why don't we just call it the Department of Civil Defense instead of this implicit notion that we don't just defend this country; we defend areas that we gather or occupy through this forward-leaning foreign policy? Why do we call it the homeland? I never heard that phrase in my life till this crowd came along.

SEN. REED: Well, I think it's less important what we call it than to make it work right.

MR. MATTHEWS: No, I think it's very important.

SEN. REED: I don't.

MR. MATTHEWS: It suggests, Senator, that we're somehow defending other territory besides our own. We've got the homeland islands and then we've got this other area we defend. It suggests a very aggressive territorial foreign policy, I think. You don't agree.

SEN. REED: No, I don't. I think what it suggests is that, after 9/11 particularly, we recognized that the threats could be inflicted upon us here in the United States, and I think we reorganized. The key issue here is not what we call it but making it work better. And I think Senator Obama and soon-to-be President Obama will make it work better.

MR. MATTHEWS: I think civil defense is what we should call it.

Let me ask you about the appointments. Are you surprised at the fact that Hillary Clinton, who voted not like you -- you voted against the war authorization -- supported the war in Iraq, has had a relatively hawkish position with regard to Iran, that she was picked as the agent of Barack Obama's foreign policy?

SEN. REED: I wasn't surprised. I think both individuals came to respect and to judge each other very clearly during the course of the campaign. And I think one thing that was demonstrated is President- elect Obama's confidence that he's going to be the leader of foreign policy, but he's going to get a very adroit, very sophisticated and world-renowned personality to help him carry out American foreign policy.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, it did sound that way today. Senator Clinton, in accepting the announcement today, said -- in responding to it, she said, "U.S. foreign policy shouldn't be by force alone and it shouldn't be by America alone." That sounded like Barack, not Hillary Clinton. What did you think?

SEN. REED: It sounded a great deal like President-elect Obama. He's emphasized multinational approach to problems. He's emphasized diplomacy. But he's also, I think, quite willing, when necessary, particularly against terrorism, to deploy discreetly our forces, both intelligence, law enforcement, and, if necessary, military forces.

MR. MATTHEWS: Do you think it's hard for someone who's been a principal like yourself to become an agent? Is it hard for someone like Senator Clinton or President Clinton, former President Clinton, anybody who's been their own person for all the years that Senator Clinton has been that, to be someone else's -- and that's really the word; besides being a Cabinet minister, which is sort of a collegial relationship, she's basically the point person for his foreign policy, Barack's foreign policy. Is that a hard adjustment? Is it a believable, probable -- plausible adjustment?

SEN. REED: I think it'll be a very plausible adjustment. I know both of them. I've traveled with them. I've worked with them. I've seen them. They're incredibly bright, disciplined, dedicated people, and they work very well with their colleagues. And I think this will be not a relationship like a senator to a senator, but it will be a relationship of two people that respect each other. But clearly President Obama, after January 20th, will be the commander in chief and the president of the United States.

MR. MATTHEWS: What will be the relationship and division of authority between the vice president, Joe Biden, and the secretary of State? Joe Biden advertised the fact during the campaign he would play predominantly a foreign policy role. He's been chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. Does he cede all that authority now to Senator Clinton or Secretary-designate Clinton, or what? Where does that stand between the two of them now?

SEN. REED: My sense is what happens is that Joe will be part of the discussion at the highest levels. He'll be someone who President- elect Obama said he wants in the room when the hard decisions have to be made. He'll be a catalyst for discussion. He'll raise questions. I don't think he'll in any way attempt to undermine either the secretary of Defense, the secretary of State, or anyone. I think he'll add to the conversation, not distract from it. I think he's a very good choice.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, thank you very much, Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island.

SEN. REED: Thanks, Chris.

END.

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