MSNBC "Race for the White House with David Gregory" - Transcript
Interview
MR. GREGORY: Joining me now from Miami is Obama supporter, and chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.
Congressman, welcome.
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you, David.
MR. GREGORY: Let me talk about sealing the deal if you're Barack Obama. He's with Bill Clinton tomorrow night in Florida; a pretty big name to have in the state to try to turn that over, as well as this buying 30 minutes of network air time to make a final pitch. How does he use that time, and what's the argument he makes?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think he's going to use that time to tell the American people one more time what his policies are on the issues that are important to them; on the economy, how his plan is dramatically different from the last seven years that we've had with George Bush, whereas he's going to point out, you know, John McCain is right on the same page as the Bush administration when it comes to the economy.
He's going to talk about how he wants to restore American credibility overseas. I can tell you, I'm here in South Florida. They have early voting here in South Florida. You see lines going around the block. And having a chance to talk to people, people are hungry for change. I mean, they're coming out in big, big numbers.
And in the conversations I've had, they say they've had enough of the last seven years. They see John McCain as more of the status quo, and they want to turn the page on that. And they see Barack Obama as offering something new, especially when it comes to the economy.
MR. GREGORY: Congressman, let me offer you a different point of view that obviously the McCain campaign would like to count on, and that is that there might be some movement in the polls, that the Joe the Plumber argument, this notion that raising taxes on upper-income Americans is the wrong approach in a recession, taxing small business owners -- there's obviously debate about whether he would do that, Senator Obama -- is the wrong thing to do in a recession.
If you're Barack Obama, the one thing you haven't done is really level with the American people about whether you can do it all. And there's a lot of concern out there that while he will be committed to rolling back the Bush tax cuts, that when push comes to shove and the realities of this economy come home to roost, that this tax cut he's promising for the middle class, just like Bill Clinton did, will not be reality in Congress. Is that a fair concern?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Well, no, because I think it's going to be one of the first orders of business. One of the things that Joe the Plumber has done that benefits Barack Obama is more clearly outlined what his tax plan is. And his tax plan, as independent analysts have said, is better for families earning under $250,000 than John McCain's plan. That's according to independent analysts.
The question is not whether or not Americans are going to get a tax cut. The question is, who's going to get the tax cut? And under John McCain's plan, it's the same old thing. The folks under the Bush plan, who are at the very top -- CEOs, the heads of Fortune 500 companies -- get, on average, a $700,000 tax cut under John McCain's plan. Under Barack Obama's plan, if you're under $250,000, 95 percent of those American families are going to get bigger tax cuts than John McCain. So I think Joe the Plumber, at the end of the day, has done --
MR. GREGORY: All right, but Congressman --
REP. VAN HOLLEN: -- Barack Obama a favor.
MR. GREGORY: -- let's talk about the realities of even Democratic rule, if it comes to that, if the Democrats have the White House and have both branches or both houses in Congress. Are you telling me that this is a sure thing, that you will have the votes to raise taxes on upper-income Americans without any push-back, that all of these more conservative Democrats who were swept in in 2006, they're all going to be on board and there won't be a fight about this?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: What I know everyone will be on board to do, David, is to provide the middle-class tax relief that Barack Obama has talked about, making sure that families under $250,000 have that tax relief that he's promised. That will happen.
Even Barack Obama has talked about a question of timing with respect to rolling back the Bush tax cuts on the very wealthy and whether or not that's something you would do right away, given the economic situation, or whether that's something he would postpone. But both for economic fairness reasons as well as making sure we get the economy moving again as part of an economic recovery plan, the Congress will move very quickly, if the American people elect Barack Obama, to enact his tax plan for middle-class tax relief.
MR. GREGORY: Well, that's a very important point you're making, though, and I'd like to flesh that out. You're saying now that it would be potentially postponed, that rolling back the Bush tax cuts would not be an immediate priority of a Democratic Congress under Barack Obama.
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Well, look, I think Barack Obama will determine the timing of his tax cut proposal with respect to the roll-backs of the Bush tax cuts on the very wealthy Americans. It depends partly on what comes with respect to the economy. But what has been very clear is that he will move forward quickly, and the new Congress would move forward quickly on the middle-class tax cuts that he's outlined. And again --
MR. GREGORY: But isn't that an acknowledgement -- but isn't it an acknowledgement that it is a risky thing to do to raise taxes on anybody in this economic climate if you're conceding that perhaps we have to cut taxes -- that's the number one thing we have to do for the middle class -- but to raise taxes on even upper-income Americans would really hurt the economy? Doesn't that basically confirm John McCain's argument and his difference with Barack Obama?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: No, because I think, as all economists will tell you, in terms of economic stimulus, what you want to do is make sure that middle-income Americans, those people who are working every day and having to spend money just to meet their payments, that is what is necessary as part of a stimulus to the economy.
What happens at the top end is a lot of that money actually goes --
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
REP. VAN HOLLEN: -- overseas. It doesn't even necessarily go right into the economy. And the second point is, we do have to distinguish between short term, where we need to give the economy a boost, and make sure middle-class Americans get that tax relief, but we've got to keep our eye on the deficit problem. And that's where John McCain falls so far short, because he doesn't have any plan in the out years for how he's going to reduce this deficit.
We are now borrowing billions and billions of dollars from China. We're mortgaging our children's future. What Barack Obama has said is we need a plan to provide middle-class tax relief, but we also have to keep our eye on the long term. We cannot mortgage our children's future.
MR. GREGORY: Although Barack Obama has not outlined any program that he's promising that he would cut or that he would forgo, given this economic crisis. Can you name me one?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Well, what Barack Obama has done is said he wants to look across the whole area of the federal government and make smart reductions. And there are reductions --
MR. GREGORY: Right. But doesn't everybody promise that? Have you ever heard of a leader who doesn't promise that?
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Well, let me give you an example. I mean, when you talk about Medicare, for example, right now there are not enough incentives in the Medicaid payment formulas to push for more preventive medicine. Right now Medicare will come in and it pays for something once it's been broken.
Obama and others have talked about how you can redesign some of the incentives in Medicare, both to get better health outcomes, but also by focusing more on prevention and giving more incentives for prevention, you can save the taxpayer money. So those are the kind of things that he's outlined that we need to look at. And when you're talking about things like that, you're talking about significant savings.
He's also talked about savings from electronic medical health records within the health care area. And so there are a number of areas he's actually outlined that would cost -- that would provide savings both to consumers as well as the federal government.
MR. GREGORY: All right, Congressman Chris Van Hollen, in Miami tonight, from Maryland, though, representing Maryland. Congressman, thank you very much.
REP. VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you, David.
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