Hearing of the House Judicial Committee-Transcript

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Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: DEADLINE FOR BIOMETRIC PASSPORTS

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R-WI)

WITNESSES: SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN POWELL; AND SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY TOM RIDGE

LOCATION: 2141 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
REP. SENSENBRENNER: The committee will be in order. Mr. Conyers and I will give opening statements. Secretary Powell is caught in traffic somewhere between the White House and here, but with Secretary Ridge's permission, we decided to get going.

Mr. Conyers and I will make opening statements. Without objection, other members' opening statements will be included in the record. And both secretaries will testify for about 10 minutes, and then we will have questions under the five-minute rule. I will repeat this after the testimony is concluded, but both secretaries have to leave at noon. I am keeping track of who appears in what order, and people will be recognized alternatively on each side under the five- minute rule, and when we get to noon, wherever we are, we will thank you very much -- (chuckles) -- we hope we thank you very much for saying what you're going to say, and everybody can be on their way.

Today we meet to discuss the October 2004 deadline for countries participating in the Visa Waiver Program to certify that they can issue machine-readable passports that are tamper resistant and incorporate biometric identifiers. The Visa Waiver Program allows travelers from certain designated countries to come to the United States as temporary visitors without having to obtain a non-immigrant visa. There are currently 27 countries participating, and in fiscal year 2002, 13 million foreign visitors entered the United States under the program.

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REP. SENSENBRENNER: The gentlewoman from California, Ms. Waters.

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members, to our very special guests here today.

With due respect for the difficulty that you're confronted with in trying to make our homeland more secure, I must tell you that I do not support the Visa Waiver Program at all. I think it's discriminatory.

And I think it was brought out here today that you have no Caribbean countries, you have no African countries in this program. And so I don't know what the criteria is. I don't know how you rate all of the other countries.

And when you talk about the refusal or the turndown rate, I just have no sense of that.

So I don't support the Visa Waiver Program at all, starting out because I think it is discriminatory, but more than that, we just heard-we were listening to the 9/11 commission, where people are talking about connecting the dots, missed opportunities, all of that, and wishing we had done something more, wishing we had paid attention. I think we should be at zero tolerance level and we should be talking about what has been alluded here today about merged databases.

As it was said, one of our members here said today that some of those who are suspected or accused or we know now have been involved in terrorist acts or potential terrorist acts came from these visa waiver countries. So I don't think that I would expect that you would come in here and talk about how much money you need, to talk about how we really do have a comprehensive system by which we prevent people from coming in here, not just people with criminal records, but people that we just don't know who they are.

So I guess I'm going to ask you, when you do you envision a very tough system that you do not allow anybody to get in here that we don't know who they are, no matter where they come from?

SEC. POWELL: That is our immediate goal now in the actions we're taking with respect to moving toward machine-readable passports for the biometric identification, with respect to the US-VISIT program participation. I think we're trying to do that now to the best of our ability, not only who comes into our country; what are they coming in for, and when do they leave? So I think we're moving in that direction now, Ms Waters.

I'll yield to Secretary Ridge as to when we might have a perfect system, if ever.

SEC. RIDGE: First of all, Congresswoman, with regard to your concern, the Visa Waiver Program, it began as a pilot program for all the reasons that have been discussed in both the testimony and the question and answer period, then I think Congress established it as a permanent part of our approach to the rest of the world community. And the requirements, the eligibility requirements are not set by the Department of State or by the Department of Homeland Security, they're set by Congress. And so if there's to be any modification on a Visa Waiver Program, obviously officials in the executive branch, whatever Congress would will at that point, we would certainly be obliged to enforce.

And secondly, one of the real challenges-and I have a particular appreciation for this in the challenge that Secretary Powell's consular affairs offices have-the United States is among several countries that has expended the resources and there are databases which are very familiar to us and we have access to, but there are a lot of countries around the rest of the world where the consular official making a decision as to whether or not an individual should be granted a visa has relatively little information. And it's just a simple fact of life. That's the case. They have to make a judgment call. On balance, I think they make pretty good calls on the limited information they have.

And again, as the secretary pointed out to you, absolutely right, we want to know as much as we possibly can about who's entering, why are they entering, and if you entered for legitimate purposes and your visa has expired, have you gone back home. So again, that is the goal that we all share and we're working together to achieve that.

REP. WATERS: I appreciate that, gentlemen, and I suspect that we'll see you again when you come in to get a waiver from one of these Visa Waiver Program countries that you don't want to limit their opportunities to get in here and not inconvenience them. But I'm going to tell you, I'm not going to support any of it. I'm not going to support any waivers of any kind. And so I just want you to know that I don't want to be in the position of making excuses a year or two from now when something bad happens; that we've seen enough, and 9/11 should be teaching us a big lesson. And the commission should be unfolding enough information for all of us to be very, very concerned about, and we should be at zero tolerance for everything.

REP. SENSENBRENNER: The gentlewoman's time has expired and the hour of noon has arrived. And pursuant to the chair's prior announcement and the commitment that the two secretaries gave to us when they agreed to come and testify, we will adjourn the committee at this time.

Let me say we deeply appreciate both of you presenting yourselves as targets of opportunity. I would like to personally ask you to be able to respond in writing to questions from members of the committee that did not have the time to ask questions today due to our time constraint.

The committee stands adjourned. (Sounds gavel.)

SEC. POWELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

SEC. RIDGE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman