NPR Travis Smiley-Transcript
National Public Radio (NPR) February 3, 2004 Tuesday
Copyright 2004 National Public Radio ®. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to National Public Radio. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission. For further information, please contact NPR's Permissions Coordinator at (202) 513-2000.
National Public Radio (NPR)
SHOW: Tavis Smiley (9:00 AM ET) - NPR
February 3, 2004 Tuesday
LENGTH: 2122 words
HEADLINE: Congressman Jim Clyburn and Governor Bill Richardson discuss the black and Latino voter factor
ANCHORS: TAVIS SMILEY
BODY:
TAVIS SMILEY, host:
From NPR in Los Angeles, I'm Tavis Smiley.
On today's program, a federal court upholds a landmark, $503 million settlement in a Mississippi college desegregation case, but some say it's not enough. We'll talk about it.
Also, regular commentator Antonio Gonzalez shares why some people of Mexican descent are seeking reparations from the US government.
And his distinctively rich voice sets him apart from the pack. Enjoy the smooth sounds of jazz vocalist Andy Bey.
But first, gauging the power of black and brown voters. The strength of the black vote in South Carolina today is viewed by many as a measurement of the efficacy of that vote in places like Michigan next Tuesday and in the general election come November. The same can be said of the Hispanic vote being tested today in primary balleting-balloting, that is, in New Mexico and Arizona, states with large Latino populations. The Democratic candidates have spent heavily to court these two crucial minority voting blocs paying for ads and hiring door-to-door canvassers and traveling to those states to pound home individual messages on issues ranging from joblessness to immigration reform.
To talk about the significant that the Democratic candidates, and I guess for that matter the Bush-Cheney re-election team place on black and especially Hispanic voters is the governor of New Mexico and co-chair of the Democratic National Convention, Bill Richardson.
Governor, nice to have you on.
Governor BILL RICHARDSON (Democrat, New Mexico): Nice to be with you.
SMILEY: Also pleased to welcome to the program, the honorable James Clyburn, congressman from South Carolina, who represents the heavily African-American Sixth District.
Congressman, nice to talk to you again, sir.
Representative JAMES CLYBURN (Democrat, South Carolina): Thank you so much for having me, Tavis. And thanks for being on with Bill-Governor Bill.
Gov. RICHARDSON: Nice to be with you, Jimmy.
SMILEY: Congressman, let me start with you and put our focus initially here on South Carolina. The black vote may weigh heavily in South Carolina's Democratic primary voting, but it is honestly dwarfed by white, conservative voters in the general election. So what do you and others have to do to make this vote meaningful in November?
Rep. CLYBURN: Well, I think that we've got to get that vote energized and, Tavis, I really believe that it is. I spent Sunday afternoon at a church over in Sumter, my hometown, First Baptist Church, 4:00 in the afternoon, just two and a half hours before the Super Bowl. That church was packed with people, and more than half of those people were under 30 years old. I had never seen-well, I shouldn't say never, maybe since the '60s, that I've seen that many young people energized as I have seen on Sunday afternoon. So I think it is engaged. And so all we've got to do is get that vote engaged and they'll be ready to vote come November.
SMILEY: Governor Richardson, I don't know how significant the Latino vote is in South Carolina, while I know it is growing because Latinos have migrated there in recent years, talk to me about-Governor Richardson, talk to me about how important the Hispanic vote is going to be particularly in the South in some of these tight primary races.
Gov. RICHARDSON: Well, it's going to be critical. For instance, Tavis, in New Mexico, 55 percent of the Latino vote will be in New Mexico. In Arizona, it's 28 percent. So what you're seeing is two states in the Southwest and then in Jimmy Clyburn's state, in South Carolina, that in essence the primary vote will be significantly minority. So this is the first test of the black-brown vote in this presidential campaign and I think our states were wise to have these votes February 3rd, the second set of primaries, Super Tuesday, so that we in essence, if it's a decisive victory for one candidate, can end up anointing the next nominee for the Democratic Party.
SMILEY: Tell me how significant, though-given the fact that you appreciate the way that the process has been restructured, tell me how significant, though, an impact you think the black and brown voters will have given this new arrangement.
Gov. RICHARDSON: Well, I believe that the next president of the United States will be elected by the black-brown coalition, Republican or Democrat. This is why Republicans are trying to court minority voters around the country so extensively. And like Jimmy Clyburn said, I notice a real energy in the Latino voter where Republican efforts to cut in to some of our areas and some of our Latino issues are not working because of their stands on immigration, on civil rights, on affirmative action that have not been progressive and, therefore, I sense that with a huge turnout, it's our job-I think Jimmy Clyburn's and mine, to get the Latino and African-American votes really out in this next election. If we do that, we can elect a Democratic president.
SMILEY: Congressman Clyburn, let me ask you since the governor ticks off a couple of issues here: As you see it, what are some of the issues that black voters are being galvanized around nationally?
Rep. CLYBURN: Well, let me tell you, we can talk about taxes, we can talk about health care, we can talk about the education, affirmative action, all these issues. But they're ranked two, three, four, five, six. Number one in everybody's mind is who can be successful in November. Which one of these candidates can go toe-to-toe and give us a victory in November?
I don't know about Latinos, but African-Americans are still really angry over what happened in Florida in 2000. They think that upwards of 150,000 of their votes did not get counted, and so that's what is paramount with them. And I have noticed that the energy that we use to try to generate-you know, voters always want something to vote for, but voters really begin to salivate when they start having something to vote against. And in this campaign, they've got some things to vote for and they've got a lot of things to vote against, and they want to come out and make a resounding noise this coming November to let people know that they are really, really angry over what happened in 2000.
SMILEY: Let me challenge you on that, respectfully, Congressman, and I shouldn't say challenge, I guess, but let me offer another side of that. Because there's some people who see it differently. There's some folk who agree with you and there are others who say, 'Yeah, but there are a lot of folk who felt so disenfranchised, who felt so dissed in 2000.' They turned out in record numbers in Florida-black voters turned out in record numbers in Florida, record numbers in other places, votes were not counted, certainly, in Florida; we know the story. How do you get those folk energized to say, 'You know what? This time, your vote is going to count. We know you got dogged last time, but come out one more time and try to make a difference.' There are some folk who suggest that that dog just won't hunt this time around, Congressman.
Rep. CLYBURN: Well, that would have been true two years ago, but when you go to my hometown and you see a headline that says that the local plant has closed and Bausch closed, laying off 400 people and moving their full operation to Mexico and you see that George Bush talks about this so-called recovery taking place and they know that these corporations are putting their headquarters in Bermuda so they don't have to pay any taxes, they're moving their jobs down to Mexico so they don't have to pay any wages, and they see that Wall Street is booming and George Bush's cronies are making money. They see the headlines on Halliburton and what's going on in Iraq. They see that their neighbors-I have one high school in my district where three young men died in Iraq-they have now begun to see that there's a direct connection between an unjust war and an unfair involvement in Iraq and the jobs leaving their communities and this administration and they have now become engaged.
SMILEY: Let me...
Rep. CLYBURN: Now they did feel that way a couple years ago, but really I see it, I can feel it. We are going to turn out in record numbers this coming November and I really believe those new polls that I saw last night that indicated that, you know, head-to-head match, Kerry would beat George Bush today by 9 points. I think that that's what got the White House engaged in a new strategy. And I really think we can win in November.
SMILEY: Let me jump in here. Governor Richardson, because now that Congressman Clyburn has mentioned John Kerry, as we all know, because he's made such national news last week, in South Carolina Representative Clyburn has already endorsed John Kerry. Governor Richardson, I know you stayed out of the endorsement business because you are, as I mentioned earlier, the co-chair of the Democratic convention this year so you stayed out of the endorsement business. But Kerry has made a strong play for Hispanic voters in the Southwest, to show him some love today and going forward. And according to the polls, Kerry is, in fact, favored in that particular region. Tell me what you think the candidates have done or not done, as it were, to reach out specifically to the Hispanic vote, Governor?
Gov. RICHARDSON: Well, because we had an early primary and caucus, Tavis, February 3rd, all the presidential candidates have been out in Latino states like New Mexico and Arizona and they've made, for instance, 50 visits to New Mexico. They have addressed Latino issues like immigration reform, affirmative action, civil rights. But also Latinos care about-like Congressman Clyburn said, about Iraq, about health care, education. What are we doing about drop-out prevention when one out of two Latino kids doesn't make it through high school? The candidates have targeted specific Latino issues.
But what I think has been singularly important is that legislatures in South Carolina and New Mexico and Arizona, we front-loaded our primary so that our issues would be taken up early. So it just wouldn't be Iowa and New Hampshire that have been totally dominating. So this is what has been extra effective; that is, bringing the primaries early which has forced the candidates to come in and reach out to Latino communities throughout the Southwest.
SMILEY: When we organize-I should not say 'we'-they, I had nothing to do with it. When they organized, Congressman Clyburn, this big Super Tuesday down South event, back in the '80s they did not expect that, one, Jesse Jackson would step up and win when they organized Super Tuesday. It brings me to 2004 with the Reverend Al Sharpton. What happens to the Sharpton campaign today if he does not do well in South Carolina?
Rep. CLYBURN: Well, I think that all of us know that Jesse Jackson won, really, in South Carolina-of course, uncommitted won, finished first-Jesse Jackson really finished second; of the committed voters, he won. But he's a native South Carolinian. His mother and grandmother were both living here at the time and they have been-they're very well respected. And so Jesse Jackson did extremely well in South Carolina. Sharpton does not have that. But I have said to everybody, I remember 1972 when I went to the Democratic convention down there in Miami. Shirley Chisholm's name was placed in nomination.
SMILEY: Right.
Rep. CLYBURN: I cast my vote for Shirley Chisholm and so I understand the pride and all that. So I'm not telling anybody not to vote for Al Sharpton.
SMILEY: Right.
Rep. CLYBURN: According to the numbers I've seen, 24 percent of African-Americans say they're going to vote for Sharpton. Twenty-four percent of African-Americans are saying that they're going to vote for Kerry. Another 18 percent say they're going to vote for Edwards. Now I don't know how that's going to come out, but I think Sharpton is doing to do well. He's not going to win here, but he could finish in third or fourth place.
SMILEY: Well, we'll be-Congressman, I hate to cut you off. I'm out of time here. We'll be following how Sharpton does and for that matter Kerry and Edwards and all the rest of the lot as we continue to cover this Democratic primary season. We thank Jim Clyburn, US congressman from South Carolina.
Rep. CLYBURN: Well, thank you so much, Tavis.
SMILEY: And we thank Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
Gov. RICHARDSON: Thank you, Tavis.
SMILEY: Thank you both. Have a-we appreciate your time.
Rep. CLYBURN: OK.
Gov. RICHARDSON: Thank you.
Rep. CLYBURN: Bye-bye.