NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript

Interview

NBC "MEET THE PRESS"
HOST: TOM BROKAW

MR. BROKAW: Our issues this Sunday -- Obama sharpens his attacks to try to combat the McCain campaign, renewed energy, and the tightening poll numbers. Seven years ago, America was attacked; our national security forever altered. Which candidate is better equipped to handle the ongoing war on terror? Joining us, the senior senator from New York, Obama supporter Chuck Schumer, and the man who was mayor of New York City on that fateful day in 2001, McCain supporter, Rudy Giuliani.

Then -- a look at the debate and tensions inside the Bush administration and the Defense Department during the darkest age of the war in Iraq. From the Washington Post, Bob Woodward, author of the new book, "The War Within -- A Secret White House History 2006- 2008." Plus, we'll have an update on the shifting battleground in the race to the White House from NBC News Political Director, Chuck Todd.

But, first, joining us now representing the Obama campaign, the senior senator from New York, Senator Chuck Schumer. Senator, thank you very much for being with us this morning. I think it's fair to say the country is following this campaign like a horseplayer at the Kentucky Derby. They are reading the charts every day, They're looking for any tips that they can find, so we thought we would begin by sharing with our audience and with you, as well, some of the latest polls that show. Here is a matchup according to Newsweek right now. They show it as a dead heat. But the most interesting numbers, really, as you know, come in what we call the "internals" -- the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll -- "Who has the strong leadership qualities needed to be President of the United States?" John McCain has jumped up to 48 percent from 42 percent in July; Barack Obama has slid back, despite having a very impressive convention appearance -- he slid back to 26 percent.

"Who is knowledgeable and experienced to be able to handle the presidency?" John McCain again has jumped up from 53 percent to 54 percent, and Barack Obama and that very critical issue has fallen back from 19 percent to 15 percent. So many of our viewers and so many people who have been polled, just don't think that he's ready to lead in a dangerous world even after going through some 20 debates and nine months of primaries. Isn't that the single most significant challenge that he has before him?

SEN. SCHUMER: I don't think so. I think Barack Obama will show that he is ready to lead but, far and away, the most fundamental question that will determine this economy, and the numbers will be quite reversed, is who can help the middle class out of the economic troubles that they are in? The average middle-class person, even during seven years of George Bush prosperity, so to speak, went down in average income, according to Professor Elizabeth Warren, from 48,000 to 46,000; who had buying power, it's down to 41 or 42.

John McCain's policies on taxes, education, health care, energy, the big meat-and-potato issues are exactly the same as George Bush's. Barack Obama represents change as we go through this campaign because most people are going to really begin to focus now. That is what's going to give Barack Obama the lead.

Now, he'll have to show that he can handle foreign policy but, again, he has a big leg up. Iraq was the biggest mistake George Bush made. If anything, John McCain is to the right of George Bush on Iraq.

MR. BROKAW: Let's take a look at some of those middle class voters, if we can, that you just referred to. Here are some of the internals in the Newsweek poll. For example, white women -- John McCain has a commanding lead among white women, 53 percent to 37 percent. We want to take you now to the AP poll. This is the latest poll from the Associate Press and GFK -- McCain has a 13-point lead on senior citizens, and he has the same lead among males. Among rural voters, he's up by 23 percent. These are middle-class voters in rural areas, and a large part of the Obama strategy is to try to win in areas like North Dakota and Montana and the Rocky Mountain West, including the state of Colorado. He has significant work to be done there.

SEN. SCHUMER: Yes, but I think the McCain campaign, which did a good job of sort of turning around the battleship at the convention, going from experience to change -- there is a fundamental flaw. John McCain and Sarah Palin do not represent change. They are, particularly on domestic issues but also on foreign policy, a continuation of George Bush's policies, and as the voters learn that, they'll learn them in the debates, they'll learn them now as the excitement of the conventions subsides, I think Barack Obama is going to -- he's leading now in the overall polls. He will break into a substantial lead.

The kind of, sort of, nasty, small bore little attacks, they work decently well when America is happen, when America is satisfied as it was in 2004 and 2000. They are not going to work now because the average middle class person in America wants change. McCain and Palin do not represent change, Obama and Biden do, and we're glad. Actually, the critics will look back a month from now and say a big mistake of the McCain campaign was to switch the battlefield to change, because that is Obama-Biden's strong suit.

MR. BROKAW: All right, let's continue with some of the challenges for your candidate. In the Associated Press poll, McCain was up 9 points on principles and values closes to the voters that were questioned. That's the kind of thing that's very hard to turn around with an effective speech. It really speaks to the discomfort a lot of people have with his background and who he is.

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, again, I think that they have to get to know him. I'm not quite sure that your average voter -- the primary voters pay a lot of attention to the primaries. It's just at the conventions people tune in. Both parties had very good conventions. I think it evened things up. But, again, I cannot reiterate -- my experience in politics tells me when people are unhappy with their economic situation, just as in '92, "it's the economy, stupid," and they are not going to vote for continuation.

John McCain, Governor Palin, have not differentiated themselves from George Bush on any major economic issue.

MR. BROKAW: Senator, here is another test for any campaign. In the Newsweek survey, they asked the question, "Do you strongly support your candidate?" Back in the summer, John McCain had only 39 percent in terms of enthusiastic support. That's jumped up to 71 percent. Obama has made a gain, but it's only about 6 percent.

The fact is that Senator McCain got a much bigger bounce out of his convention than did Senator Obama for all the theatrics of the football stadium.

SEN. SCHUMER: And it's still an even race, and I hate to keep reiterating -- as this campaign unfolds, I think, in a certain sense, the McCain-Palin campaign has peaked. They had all the excitement, everyone's excited that, for the first time, the Republican Party chose a woman candidate, but the fundamentals matter in a race like this, and they don't have the fundamentals. You cannot -- you cannot win an election if it's premised on a fundamental mistruth, which is that they are changed; they are not changed from George Bush.

MR. BROKAW: Did you watch Charles Gibson's -- Charlie Gibson's interview with Governor Sarah Palin?

SEN. SCHUMER: No. I read it later, I did not watch it.

MR. BROKAW: Here is an interested exchange they had about your friend, Hillary Clinton, the woman you supported in the Democratic primaries.

MR. CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS: (From videotape.) I saw you quoted somewhere as speaking rather admiringly of Mrs. Clinton, Senator Clinton, during the primary campaign. Do you think Obama should have picked her?

GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (From videotape.) I think he's regretting not picking her now.

MR. BROKAW: He's regretting not picking Hillary Clinton. And then here is what Joe Biden, who was his choice, had to say about Hillary Clinton in one of his appearances.

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (From videotape.) Make no mistake about this: Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be Vice President of the United States of America.

SEN. BIDEN: That's Joe Biden saying that she's more qualified than he is. I thought the test was you always picked the person who was most qualified to be your vice presidential candidate. Did Senator Obama make a mistake?

SEN. SCHUMER: No, he didn't. Joe Biden is a great candidate. Joe is a modest guy. He was just being Joe Biden there. Any of us who know him over the years know that Joe would say that. Joe Biden is a great choice for several reasons. His foreign policy background is going to compare very favorably to Governor Palin's, but, even more importantly again -- that he understands what the average family goes through on Friday night when they sit around the dinner table and figure, "How am I going to stretch my paycheck to pay all these bills?"

MR. BROKAW: How would you use Senator Clinton in this campaign for Senator Obama?

SEN. SCHUMER: Oh, I'd use Senator Clinton a lot, and I know she will. I talk to her regularly. She feels, with passion, what a mistake it would be to continue another four years of the last eight, as she said at the Democratic convention, and she will be out there and out there strongly.

MR. BROKAW: Do you think that she can turn the tide for Senator Obama among Reagan Democrats? And that's a critical test this time, especially with the appeal that Senator Palin has -- pardon me -- Governor Palin has demonstrated, so far, in that particular group among white women and among males in states like Michigan and Ohio and the Rocky Mountain West?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, first, I think she will help turn the tide. I think Barack Obama and Joe Biden's economic message will turn the tide the most. But let me say one thing about Governor Palin. You know, there are so many questions she hasn't been asked and, again, she has to be asked these questions. You know, people say, "Well, some questions are unfair, maybe sexist." Yeah, there are certain questions that are.

If you say to Governor Palin, how can you raise five kids and also be vice president? You wouldn't ask a man that question; you shouldn't ask her. But she is campaigning on a basis of reform, a new broom that sweeps clean, and she talks the talk but, so far, she hasn't walked the walk.

There was an article in today's newspaper that said part of the Bush Doctrine she evidently believes in is cronyism, because she filled the Alaska government with old pals. It's a little reminiscent of Brownie in FEMA. But there are three other questions I think she has to answer if she wants to be the reform candidate. First -- is she going to support Senator Stevens in this election campaign? Senator Stevens is the king of earmarks, supposedly, the McCain/Palin team hates earmarks, and yet he is the king of earmarks. He was indicted for involvement with lobbyists.

If it's politics as usual, she's supporting Stevens? Is she a new broom that sweeps clean? Second, there is an investigation about abuse of power that she wanted to fire a state trooper because he was in a bitter divorce with her sister, and she has ordered all Alaska employees not to talk to this bipartisan investigation that was set up before she was vice president.

I want to ask Governor Palin -- will you, if your new politics, you should certainly let the employees in the State of Alaska, talk to the investigators. Stonewalling is not new politics. And, finally, one more, Tom -- will she release her tax returns? Governor -- I mean -- Joe Biden has, Barack Obama has -- there are some questions there because she was given per diem payments for staying at home, $17,000. Are those on her tax return?

MR. BROKAW: Senator, let me ask --

SEN. SCHUMER: How can you be reform and sweep clean? You've got to walk -- you can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk, and as she has to answer these questions not in set interviews, I don't think she's going to be quite as popular as she is today.

MR. BROKAW: Let's talk about the McCain strategy against Senator Obama. You said earlier that you thought that that celebrity attack ad was a powerful message --

SEN. SCHUMER: Mm-hm.

MR. BROKAW: When he was compared to Britney Spears and Paris Hilton and that his response was insufficient. We're going to share with you now one of the speeches that Senator Obama has made just this past Friday in New Hampshire and see if you think it's strong enough.

SEN. SCHUMER: Okay.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): (From videotape.) They will spend any amount of money and use any tactic out there in order to avoid talking about how we're going to move America into the future.

MR. BROKAW: Do you take back what you said earlier that he was insufficient in his response?

SEN. SCHUMER: Yes, I do. Look, Barack Obama, to his credit, would like the campaign to just be on the big issues -- issues like Iraq, issues like energy, issues like health care. But, under Karl Rove's leadership, McCain is doing what Karl Rove does -- small bore, nasty, diversionary. And I think they realize while the predominant way to win this election is still that higher ground, you have to answer.

We have in the DSCC, Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, which I chair, a 24-hour rule. They hit you, you have to hit back with the same speed and velocity within 24 hours. The Obama campaign is now doing that, and they will have a sword, the economic issues where we are predominant, and a shield, answering back right away, not staying above the fray, and that's how they're going to win the election.

MR. BROKAW: Senator Schumer, we are told today by the Obama campaign that they raised $66 million last month. That's a very impressive number. He has set new records for raising money but, at the same time, this is a man who said earlier, in response to Senator McCain's invitation that, in fact, he would join him in public financing and not go to the private sector. So don't you expect that the Republicans will make hay out of that in the coming days as well.

SEN. SCHUMER: You know, I'd say two things here -- first, Obama's contributions, more than anyone else, come in the 10s and $25 from average citizens.

MR. BROKAW: But a lot of them come from big friends of yours on Wall Street and New York and people who have big chunks of money to give.

SEN. SCHUMER: But the percentage of average voters sending in money is remarkably high, higher than it's been in any campaign. But, second, I'd say this, Tom -- money is not going to decide this campaign. What's going to decide this campaign predominantly are the big issues and who represents change. Both candidates agree change is the election issue. I'd bet my money on Obama-Biden as the change candidates -- not McCain-Palin-Bush.

MR. BROKAW: All right, thanks very much, Senator Schumer of New York. We have to leave it right there. And for the McCain campaign now, we're joined by New York -- in New York by former New York City, Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who is out on Long Island at a hotel, even though he looks like he's in front of a "Meet the Press" set there. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for being with us.

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