Hearing of the Subcomm. on the W. Hemisphere of the House Comm. on Int. Relations-The Situation in Haiti
March 3, 2004 Wednesday
SECTION: CAPITOL HILL HEARING
HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE OF THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
SUBJECT: THE SITUATION IN HAITI
CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE CASS BALLENGER (R-NC)
LOCATION: 2172 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.
WITNESSES:
ROGER F. NORIEGA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE; ARTHUR E. DEWEY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF POPULATION, REFUGEES AND MIGRATION, DEPARTMENT OF STATE; ADOLFO A. FRANCO, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU FOR LATIN AMERICA AND CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
BODY:
REP. CASS BALLENGER (R-NC): First of all, let me apologize to the people that sat and waited. It really wasn't 45 minutes, it was only about 40 minutes. But before we get started, I'd like-I want to ask unanimous consent that all members of Congress in attendance today be permitted to join the members of the subcommittee up here on the dais, and without objection, it's so ordered. Okay.
Thank you.
I wish to announce some of the ground rules upon which both ranking member, Mr. Menendez, and I have agreed. First, members of the subcommittee will be allowed to offer an opening statement. Second, all members of the House will be allowed to insert their written statements into the record. Third, all members, time permitting, will be given five minutes to ask questions of the witnesses. And I would like to say to those of you that are here, we're going to be pretty strict on that five minutes or we'll be here all day.
Accordingly, I ask unanimous consent to allow all non-members of the subcommittee to speak when they are recognized by the chair to question witnesses, and without objection, it's so ordered. Alternating by party, priority will be given first to the members of the subcommittee, then, as time permits, to the members of the full committee, and finally, to members who do not serve on International Relations Committee. Fourth, in the interest of time, I'm going to be pretty strict on the clock so that each member will have the best chance of being able to say something.
Before I begin with my opening statement, I wish to remind everyone that this hearing will be lively and emotional, since we all want a full debate. And I also ask that everyone remain cordial and respectful throughout, if possible, and we have an obligation to uphold the dignity of our offices and this subcommittee. While we may disagree on some issues, we remain obligated to work together to discuss the important issues which face our nation and those of Haiti. In my considered opinion, we can and must work together in good faith to meet the challenges that we now face. And now my opening statement.
This afternoon we'll examine the situation in Haiti. This situation in Haiti is, as has been for some time, extremely challenging. The needs of the Haitian people for democracy, jobs, education, healthcare, and for such basics as food and clean water are as great as they've ever been. One can lay out terrible statistics, but they can't even begin to describe the situation of Haiti's impoverished citizens.
The efforts of some of the world's most experienced diplomats to resolve the political stalemate in Haiti all ended in frustration. Do you mind sitting still? The deputy secretary general of the Organization of American States made 20 trips to Haiti to try to work out a solution. President Aristide resigned and left Haiti. Presidents in other countries, including our own, have resigned for the good of their people. Let me be clear. I fully support the steps taken by the Bush administration to give the people of Haiti a chance to build a better future. Our government has acted with the backing of other governments, particularly France and Canada, and has secured the unanimous vote of the United Nations Security Council for a resolution that supports our actions to help Haiti.
There is something else I would like to say. There have been accusations that officials of the U.S. government have committed a felony, punishable by death that is: kidnapping. The head of the Steele Foundation, which was responsible for President Aristide's security, told me personally that had U.S. forces or any other forces tried to kidnap or otherwise harm President Aristide, his men had orders to resist and were authorized to do so with lethal force, if necessary. The accusation that President Aristide was kidnapped is clearly false.
It's my hope that this hearing can support an initiative that I agreed to with several members to come together on a bipartisan basis to see how we can help Haiti. I have personally committed to deliver humanitarian assistance to Haiti with private funds as soon as the situation there permits. There is a new provisional president in place in accordance with the Haitian Constitution. American Marines are now on the ground in Haiti and it's time to move forward to help the Haitian people.
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Jan Schakowsky.
REP. JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY (D-IL): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your allowing those of us who care about Haiti but who are not on this committee to ask some questions.
Let me just first say it is obvious, Mr. Noriega, that you think that the very distinguished Congressional Black Caucus, members of Congress who in my view have the most expertise and the most interest in Haiti not only for President Aristide but for the people of Haiti, who almost to a person disagree with you, are wrong. And it seems to me that that would justify a full and objective investigation of exactly what happened. We need to understand, since there is such disagreement, every dollar that was spent by the United States in Haiti over the last while leading up to this, how the USAID dollars were spent or the CIA dollars were spent. And we ought to examine carefully the intelligence. You know, many members in this Congress relied in the past on intelligence that happened to be all wrong, and it's-we need to look at that carefully as well, the intelligence that you based your decisions on.
I'm very interested also in what happened that night. I was in conversation with Mrs. Aristide in Haiti at about 6:30 pm and there was absolutely no hint whatsoever that this was going to be the night when they were leaving. So I was wondering if there is a State Department memorandum or a written record or a plan that involved the United States that we could have a copy of now? If there were any communiqus or communications that were written that we could look that would help to explain exactly what happened?
MR. NORIEGA: Ma'am and Mr. Chairman, the committee through its oversight responsibilities and powers can request information from the administration and we'll accommodate it in the normal way.
REP. BALLENGER: That's what I was hoping, that people would submit questions. I'm sure you'll be glad to answer for --
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I will submit additional questions.
What time was the first conversation with President Aristide, is one question I have, about this? And was the letter of resignation composed by-not just signed by, actually composed by President Aristide?
MR. NORIEGA: I don't know who composed the letter, but it wasn't composed by anybody-it wasn't composed by us. I assume he wrote it. It had his flair. But the first conversation with him I believe was after 9:00 pm. We had received a word through an emissary that he had wanted to pose some questions to us, and that --
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Are you saying for the record here that the first contact was from Mr. Aristide to the embassy or to U.S. representatives to discuss his leaving?
MR. NORIEGA: To discuss his departure. We had contacts with his emissaries throughout all this period of time --
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: About leaving?
MR. NORIEGA: No, no, no.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay. What --
MR. NORIEGA: It was about staying as a matter of fact.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay, exactly. That was my sense at 6:30 pm.
MR. NORIEGA: That's right.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: So I'm trying to understand. Are you saying, though, that he made the first overture? This is important to get on the record.
MR. NORIEGA: The first comments about-that clearly suggested that he was considering leaving came from an emissary of his who posed some questions to us-to Ambassador Foley.
The questions were --
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: I've heard those. But you're saying that at no time before that was there any suggestion from the U.S. government in any way that he should resign and leave and that we would help him leave?
MR. NORIEGA: I'm not aware of every conversation that took place with a U.S.-so-called U.S. government official.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Well, when was the plane ordered?
MR. NORIEGA: I think it was probably after 1:00 am. It would have been before-it would have been after he indicated that he was interested.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: When he was on the plane was he told that-were they told that they could not even raise the window shades?
MR. NORIEGA: I'm not aware that that's the case. I've heard that allegation, but I've heard other allegations that are absolutely inaccurate.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Was he told on the way to the Central African Republic where he was going in advance of what we heard was about 20 minutes before they landed? Did he know?
MR. NORIEGA: I don't think so. I think he was told at the very-right before the arrival.
REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Why would that be?
MR. NORIEGA: I could answer the question if you'll-there were members of his security detail who were armed. This is a very unusual kidnapping when the man's bodyguards carry arms. And, frankly, we were concerned that-because they had weapons on the plane, that they might react because he was not going to his desired location but we were taking him somewhere near there --
REP. BALLENGER: Well --
MR. NORIEGA: -- because the desired location he had turned down-had been turned down, I'm sorry. They didn't want to accept him.
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