Hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee - Allegations of Mistreatment of Iraqi Prisoners

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: ALLEGATIONS OF MISTREATMENT OF IRAQI PRISONERS

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR JOHN WARNER (R-VA)

WITNESSES: CENTCOM COMMANDER GENERAL JOHN ABIZAID; LIEUTENANT GENERAL RICARDO SANCHEZ, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ; MAJOR GENERAL GEOFFREY MILLER, DEPUTY COMMANDER FOR DETAINEE OPERATIONS, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ

LOCATION: 216 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. REED: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Colonel Warren, is it accurate to say that all the prisoners in Abu Ghraib were entitled to the protections of the Geneva Convention, that they were either enemy prisoners of war or protected persons, is that correct?

COL. WARREN: Sir, that's right. They were protected persons either under the Third or Fourth Geneva Convention.

SEN. REED: Thank you. Under the Geneva Convention, Article 31, "no physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against any protected persons, in particular to obtain information about them or from third parties," is that correct?

COL. WARREN: Sir, you're quoting from Article 31 of the Fourth Convention. That is an accurate recitation of what the article says. I would cite you to Picktay's (ph) commentary on the article for elaboration.

SEN. REED: Well, thank you.

COL. WARREN: The coercion should --

SEN. REED: We'll go into the elaboration --

COL. WARREN: Yes sir-should not be taken out of context.

SEN. REED: But that is the operative rule?

COL. WARREN: That is a literal general rule.

SEN. REED: Let's go back to the rules of engagement here. Sleep management, 72 hours. Sensory deprivation 72 hours. Would you consider that to be physical or moral coercion?

COL. WARREN: Sir, not prohibited coercion under Article 31 for security internees and --

SEN. REED: I'm talking about in particular to obtain information about them or from third parties.

COL. WARREN: No sir, I would not.

SEN. REED: So, these are not methods to use for interrogation?

COL. WARREN: Sir, the list on the right hand side --

SEN. REED: Can we-can we-can you answer the question, Colonel?

COL. WARREN: Sir, that does not require a yes or no answer, I have to elaborate upon it.

SEN. REED: So, Colonel, my time is six minutes, so let me just move on. These that you've just said, that these are coercive means --

COL. WARREN: No sir, I did not. What I said is --

SEN. REED: A protected person to obtain information.

COL. WARREN: No sir. What I said was that those that are on the right are a list on slide which was produced at a low level, which was not representative of our counter-resistance and interrogation policy.

SEN. REED: Excuse me, Colonel. I'm asking you a question, not how it was evolved. But, if 72 hours with a bag over your head is contrary-to obtain information, is contrary to Article 31 of the Geneva Convention, correct?

COL. WARREN: That would be yes.

SEN. REED: Thank you. General Sanchez, today's USA Today, it's been reported that you ordered or approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by guard dogs, excessive noise, and inducing fear as an interrogation method for a prisoner in Abu Ghraib prison-person-prison-is that correct?

GEN. SANCHEZ: Sir, that may be correct that it's in a news article, but I never approved any of those measures to be used within the CJTF-7 at any time in the last year.

SEN. REED: Excuse me, but I want to get back to this though. It may be correct that you ordered those methods used against a prisoner-is that your answer?

GEN. SANCHEZ: No sir, that's not what I said.

SEN. REED: Well, I didn't hear-that's why I want --

GEN. SANCHEZ: I said it may be correct that it's printed in an article, but I have never approved the use of any of those methods within CJTF-7 in the 12-and-a-half months that I've been in Iraq.

SEN. REED: Why-what level of command produced this slide?

GEN. SANCHEZ: Sir, my understanding is that that was produced at the company commander level.

SEN. REED: How could the company commander evolve such a specific list-how could the company commander then turn around and say that some of these things would require your permission, without any interaction between your command? It seems to me it's just difficult to understand.

GEN. SANCHEZ: Sir, it's difficult for me to understand it. You'd have to ask the commander.

SEN. REED: And this is the company commander that you relieved and gave him a letter of admonition?

GEN. SANCHEZ: No sir.

SEN. REED: No. Okay. General Miller, at Guantanamo, it's been reported that you developed a 72-point matrix for stress and duress, lays out types of coercion, escalating levels that may include harsh or heat or cold, withholding food, hooding for days at a time, naked isolation in cold, dark cells, is that correct?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, that is categorically incorrect.

SEN. REED: That never happened?

GEN. MILLER: That is categorically incorrect.

SEN. REED: When you were dispatched by Secretary Cambone and General Boykin to go to Iraq, did they give you any specific instructions about increasing the aggressiveness of interrogations?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, I was tasked to go to assist, conduct an assistance visit, by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They tasked Southern Command, who then tasked JTF- Guantanamo, who put the team together.

SEN. REED: Did you have conversations with General Boykin and Secretary Cambone prior to your departure about your trip?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, I did not.

SEN. REED: You did not. Did you have any discussions after your visit, after your return?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, I submitted the report up to SOUTHCOM. I had no direct discussions with Secretary Cambone or General Boykin.

SEN. REED: Well, I-Secretary Cambone testified that General Boykin briefed him on your discussions and he left the implication that you and General Boykin had-do you-have you spoken to General Boykin about any of these issues?

GEN. MILLER: No sir. The-the report was provided up, and it may-this is my speculation because I do not know-it may have gone to General Boykin, but he had-he and I have not had conversations about-personal conversations about this inspection visit.

SEN. REED: Your team, when they went down and briefed at the-how low a level did you brief and talk to people in that prison?

GEN. MILLER: Yes sir. Sir, the team went at several different levels. They started at the CJTF level.

SEN. REED: How far did they go in the prison?

GEN. MILLER: They went down to the battalion commander level at the military police function, and to the company commander level at the military intelligence function.

SEN. REED: And that might be the level where this document was developed?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, I do not know what level that document was developed at.

SEN. REED: Did you team specifically brief that these techniques, which you deny being placed in Guantanamo, could not be used? Did they any way suggest that methods could be used in that prison that are contrary to the Geneva Convention?

GEN. MILLER: Sir, no methods contrary to the Geneva Convention were presented any time by the assistance team that I took to CJTF-7. And there is no, as you, as you brought up again, sir, there is no status or there is no program at JTF-Guantanamo that has any of those techniques that are --

SEN. REED: Well, one of the --

GEN. MILLER: -- that are prohibited by the Geneva Convention.

SEN. REED: One of the problems we have, General, is that we have not yet, after repeated requests, received the documentation about the interrogation sequence-techniques, excuse me, at Guantanamo, which is another lack of cooperation in this investigation.

My time has expired-may we have a second round, Mr. Chairman?

SEN. WARNER: It's important that we conclude today's round with a closed session. Members will be given an opportunity to have questions.