MSNBC Interview - Transcript

Interview

MS. HALL: Just mention immigration at a barbecue this summer and you'll find yourself in the middle of perhaps one of the hottest debates in the political landscape right now. So when it comes to the presidential campaign, it's no surprise that both Barack Obama and John McCain are courting Hispanic voters. John, who could as we very well, decide this critical election.

MR. HARWOOD: But of course, a recent Gallup Poll shows Obama and McCain neck and neck when it comes to who would do a better job dealing with illegal immigration. Look at this number when Hispanic voters are asked who'd they vote for? Fifty-nine percent say Obama; 29 percent for John McCain.

We're joined now by Senator Dick Durbin from Illinois. He's a Barack Obama supporter. And senator, given the way that John McCain went out on a limb for comprehensive immigration reform, why do you think he's doing so poorly so far among Hispanic voters?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, I think there's probably a concern among Hispanic voters about where John McCain stands. During the course of the Republican primary, he basically told them that he no longer supported his comprehensive immigration bill. Now, he said he supports it again.

So there is some uncertainty about his position, but there's no doubt that both he and Barack worked together on a bipartisan basis for a comprehensive bill.

MR. HARWOOD: But don't you give him credit, John McCain credit for taking big political risks within his party while he was running for the nomination at an earlier point and support standing up there with Ted Kennedy and others in your party to back that bill? That was pretty tough to do, wasn't it?

SEN. DURBIN: You bet. There were only about ten of us who were involved in it and John McCain was one of them. I just have to say that the thing that troubled us was during the course of the Republican primaries. He appeared to walk away from that bill and say he wouldn't have voted for it.

I think that John should support comprehensive immigration reform as he did at the beginning.

MS. HALL: Senator Durbin, I spoke with someone from La Raza earlier today, one of the big Hispanic groups as you well know and they said it's a mistake for either of these presumptive nominees to believe that this is just about immigration for Latino voters, and we saw Senator McCain today hit very hard on the economy. He spoke to the audience saying if you expect, you know, more taxes, I am not the candidate who is going to do that, how this could affect small businesses.

Is Senator Obama aware or hitting hard with the community as far as the economy and what that means that it is not limited to immigration or immigration reform?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, you're so right, Tamron. To look at the Hispanic community and say this is just about the immigration issue is to overlook the obvious. They're concerned about their jobs. They're concerned about their pay, health care, education, and when you take a look at the mess the economy is in today, it's because of the Bush economic policies -- tax cuts for the wealthiest people in America. John McCain's position? More tax cuts for the wealthiest people in America. That isn't a way to lift the middle class, the working people in this country and give them a fighting chance in this economy.

Barack Obama knows that. That's why he's focusing his tax reform on working families so they have a fighting chance.

MS. HALL: Senator Durbin, speaking of working families though as you well know what we saw in the primaries, Senator Obama had trouble with those blue collar working families and some within that group believe it is those who have come to this country, who've taken their jobs, who are hurting them in the Rust Belt, and even, quite frankly, in Illinois you hear this conversation.

How does Senator Obama address those two needs -- appealing to the Latino voters and not making those working class white voters feel that he is taking their jobs?

SEN. DURBIN: I think if you take a look at what happened in that primaries, Senator Clinton won a lot of votes, but the polling today shows that many of her voters are now coming to Barack's side. They understand there is a clear choice. If you're going to focus on a good pay and a good job and good health care benefits for working people, it's the Democratic side that's addressed that and Barack Obama had led in that conversation.

We believe that we can have responsible, comprehensive immigration reform that closes our borders and makes certain that they are regulated and supervised that we can have the kind of cutbacks in bureaucracy we've seen too much of in Washington. We can have enforcement in the workplace and a comprehensive immigration plan. Barack is committed to that.

MR. HARWOOD: Senator, let's shift over to the economy for a second. These two campaigns have fully engaged now on the tax issue. Barack Obama proposes to raise taxes on people at the high end on capital gains and dividends. John McCain is attacking him for that. Doesn't it make sense not to raise taxes at a time when the economy is as soft as ours is now? Obama told me in an interview a couple of weeks ago he might even delay some of those tax increases.

SEN. DURBIN: But understand what we're talking about here. He's also talking about tax cuts for working families. That is stimulative and it helps our economy.

MR. HARWOOD: But on net, he would raise taxes though.

SEN. DURBIN: Well, you have to look at the net result of having this overbearing deficit. It's a burden on our economy. It affects the value of the dollar. It affects interest rates. All of these things are a product of this deficit.

Remember, George W. Bush inherited a surplus from the Clinton administration and has turned it in the deepest deficit in our history and along comes John McCain who says not only will I reenact the Bush tax cuts, I'm going to double them. I'm going to add to them, which will sink us even deeper in this deficit mess.

MR. HARWOOD: But senator, John McCain also said yesterday he'll balance the budget by the end of his first term. You don't believe him?

SEN. DURBIN: It's voodoo two. It's voodoo two. It's a rerun of what we heard before. That if you just keep cutting taxes, everything is going to work out. John McCain wants to double the tax cuts for wealthy Americans and is somehow trying to convince us that that's going to lead to a balanced budget. It doesn't work.

MR. HARWOOD: And Senator Durbin, before you leave, I want to get your reaction to the new McCain ad we just played a short time ago. It portrays the '60s and the Hippie time period, showing the sacrifice that Senator McCain made for the country all the while hitting on the point that Hillary Clinton did as well during the primary that it's more than about hope.

How does Senator Obama's campaign respond or defeat that argument that he is all hope, 75,000 people may be in Denver, but no action?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, look, first, we give credit to John McCain. He is truly a war hero. Here is a man who flew in a Navy jet, shot down over Vietnam and spent over five years in a prisoner of war camp and was subjected to torture and he deserves accolades for all of those things he did in the '60s. This campaign is focusing on the 21st century. Where are we going to move America? What is the right thing for our economy? And when you hear Barack Obama's message, it isn't just about looking forward in some theoretical way. He really wants to focus on solving problems that have been ignored by this Bush administration and the recession we're facing.

MR. HARWOOD: Senator, quick question on that ad. Are you Democrats going to defend the summer of love?

SEN. DURBIN: Listen, I can't even remember what I was doing then. I think I was already married and trying to make a little money for my family.

MS. HALL: We'll go on YouTube and see if that's true. All right. Senator Durbin, thank you very much.

SEN. DURBIN: Thank you.

END.

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