Hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee - Mistreatment of Iraqi Prisoners

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: MISTREATMENT OF IRAQI PRISONERS

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR JOHN WARNER (R-VA)

WITNESSES: SECRETARY OF DEFENSE DONALD RUMSFELD; GENERAL RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF; LES BROWNLEE, ACTING SECRETARY OF THE U.S. ARMY; GENERAL PETER SCHOOMAKER, CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE U.S. ARMY; LIEUTENANT GENERAL LANCE SMITH, DEPUTY COMMANDER, CENTRAL COMMAND

LOCATION: 106 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Mr. Secretary, the vast majority of American troops perform their duties with compassion, fairness and courage. This abuse makes the task which they've been assigned far more difficult and far more dangerous, and that troubles me gravely. Worst of all, our nation, a nation that to a degree unprecedented in human history has sacrificed its blood and treasure to secure liberty and human rights around the world, now must try to convince the world that the horrific images on their TV screens and front pages are not the real America; that what they see is not who we are.

That is why, Mr. Secretary, I'm so troubled by the Pentagon's failure to come forward, to fully disclose this appalling abuse, to express outrage and concern, and to outline swift, tough corrective actions. I believe that, had you done that, it would have mitigated somewhat how this abuse has been perceived around the world, particularly in the Muslim community. I'm not talking about issuing a press release from Baghdad; I'm talking about you personally coming forward and telling the world what you knew about this abuse.

In retrospect, do you believe that you erred in not coming forward not just to the president and the Congress-you've made very clear today that you regret not doing that-but to the world community? Would it have made a difference if it had been the Pentagon itself that had disclosed the full extent of this abuse, whatever you knew and what actions you were going to take?

SEC. RUMSFELD: I think in my statement I responded in full to your question. I would characterize what was done in the Central Command by way of swift corrective action as being just that: swift corrective action.

And second, the-I don't know quite how to respond to your question. The Department of Defense announced that there-abuse was being charged, there were criminal investigations under way. No one had seen the photographs. They were part of a criminal investigation and they were in that Central Command-I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them-and they were part of that investigative process.

It is the photographs that gives one the vivid realization of what actually took place. Words don't do it. The words that there were abuses, that it was cruel, that it was inhumane, all of which is true, that it was blatant, you read that and it's one thing. You see the photographs, and you get a sense of it, and you cannot help but be outraged.

Now, there are at any given time in the Department of Defense, as I said, there are these 3,000 court-martials under way. General court-martials, some 1,200. Criminal investigations, 18,000 a year last year; and the importance of protecting the people charged, protecting their rights; and the importance of seeing that if, in fact, they're guilty, that they don't get off because of command influence, so there's a pattern of not reaching down into those things, bringing them up and looking at all the evidence before it ever arrives. And in this case, it was released to the press.

Now, we announced the problem to the press. We did not release the Taguba report to the press. That was done by someone to release, against the law, a secret document. That's how it surprised everyone. It shocked the Congress. It shocked me. It shocked the president. It shocked the country. But to suggest that they had not taken tough, swift corrective actions in the General Command, it seems to me, is inconsistent with what took place.

SEN. COLLINS: Well, Mr. Secretary, that's not what I said. What I said-and I have no doubt that the military's committed to swift corrective action. It's the disclosure of the abuse and the promise to take those actions, that's where I feel the Pentagon fell short. May 07, 2004 14:44 ET .EOF

And I think that rather than calling CBS and asking for a delay in the airing of the pictures, it would have been far better if you, Mr. Secretary, with all respect, had come forward and told the world about these pictures and of your personal determination, a determination I know you have, to set matters right and to hold those responsible accountable.

SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, Senator Collins, I wish I had done that. I said that in my remarks. I wish I knew-and we've got to find a better way to do it-but I wish I knew how you reach down into a criminal investigation when it is not just a criminal investigation, but it turns out to be something that is radioactive, something that has strategic impact in the world.

And we don't have those procedures. They've never been designed. We're functioning in a-with peacetime constraints, with legal requirements, in a wartime situation, in the Information Age, where people are running around with digital cameras and taking these unbelievable photographs and then passing them off, against the law, to the media, to our surprise, when they had-they had not even arrived in the Pentagon.