National Public Radio Talk of the Nation - Transcript

National Public Radio (NPR)

SHOW: Talk of the Nation (2:00 PM ET) - NPR

HEADLINE: Political fallout from Iraq prison scandal

ANCHORS: NEAL CONAN

BODY:
NEAL CONAN, host:

This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.

Late yesterday, after President Bush had expressed support for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in public, White House aides let it be known that the president was not entirely happy. In particular, he was said to be displeased that Secretary Rumsfeld did not let him know about the pictures of Iraqi detainees being abused by American MPs before those photos showed up in television reports. Secretary Rumsfeld canceled plans to make a speech in Philadelphia today, which triggered new questions about his future. Then White House press secretary Scott McClellan repeated the president's endorsement and described his displeasure as a mild rebuke of the secretary of Defense.

While some in Congress are calling for Secretary Rumsfeld to resign, he faces what could be a difficult appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee tomorrow. In a few minutes, we'll talk with two members of that committee. Later in the program, we'll bring you up to date on the situations in the Iraqi cities of Najaf, Karbala and Fallujah, and we'll try to figure out what's next for the Middle East after Israeli Prime Minister Sharon's own party rejected his proposed pullout plan earlier this week.

But first, the political fallout from the Iraqi prisoner scandal. What issues do you think the Senate committee should focus on in tomorrow's hearings? What questions do you want to hear during that session? Join the conversation. Our number here in Washington is (800) 989-8255. That's (800) 989-TALK. And the e-mail address is totn@npr.org.

Joining us now from Capitol Hill is Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Good to have you back on TALK OF THE NATION.

Senator JOHN CORNYN (Republican, Texas): Thank you, Neal. Good to be with you.

CONAN: I understand you met this morning with Secretary Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. What was the subject of the discussion?

Sen. CORNYN: Well, this is an earlier planned meeting with four members of the Senate in anticipation of the consideration of the defense reauthorization bill. But, of course, the discussion turned rather quickly to the revelation of abuses at the Iraqi prison. It's been so much on all of our minds.

CONAN: And as you know there have been calls by some in the Senate on the other side of the aisle, Democrats, that Secretary Rumsfeld ought to consider resigning at this point. That come up at all in the conversation?

Sen. CORNYN: Well, not in those terms directly. But I will tell you that I was much reassured that the Department of Defense and the secretary of Defense in particular handled this matter appropriately in terms of the internal investigation and then indeed in terms of the charges that were lodged on March the 20th against six soldiers involved in this probe. It's, of course, shocking to see the pictures that we've seen, and no one is making any excuses for that. But I do understand why in the course of an investigation that in order to maintain the integrity of that investigation and in fairness to the people accused of these crimes, that he felt it was important to keep it largely confidential.

CONAN: The president was said to be upset that he was not told before the pictures were broadcast on "60 Minutes II" I guess a week ago tomorrow, a week ago tonight. Many in Congress were a little upset that they weren't told that this was going on.

Sen. CORNYN: Well, you can include me in that list. I think one of the worst things that you can do to an elected officials is surprise them because, of course, people then ask us what in the world is going on, and we didn't have the answers. But that's why I think it's so important that Secretary Rumsfeld testify in public, as I and others have called for, tomorrow at the Senate Armed Services Committee meeting here in Washington. And he will get tough questions, and I'm sure, based on my meeting with him today, he will have some answers. But this is going to go on for a while until we get to the bottom of it.

CONAN: Speaking of what may be tough questions, we have some callers on the line. (800) 989-8255, by the way, if you'd like to join us, or you can e-mail us, totn@npr.org. Let's begin with Kate, who's with us from St. Paul, Minnesota.

KATE (Caller): Yes, hi.

CONAN: Hi.

KATE: I listened to the president's press secretary hearing this noon, and it looked very much as if this is going to be a kind of a cut-and-run response, saying that the guilty parties will be held accountable but without any acknowledgement of responsibility in the Department of Defense or CIA or ultimately the president. I'm especially worried about making sure that doesn't happen because I think there has to have been a climate that taught those people that behavior. They didn't go over to Iraq as licentious bullies. Somebody told them that was what they were supposed to do. And I'm especially concerned that we get to the bottom of that because I'm thinking about Jessica and Shoshanna and that they were treated well by Arab captors. But after this, it's terrifying to think of any Americans actually being captured.

CONAN: Jessica Lynch and Shoshanna were some of the people who were captured during the course of the war in Iraq a year ago.

Senator Cornyn, is this-are you going to ask Secretary Rumsfeld if the investigation is limited to just the soldiers who have been accused thus far-some have been charged on court-martial charges; some have been reprimanded-or does it go up higher in the chain of command?

Sen. CORNYN: Well, I think he will be asked, and we should be told where this story leads and we should leave no stone unturned. But I do think it's important not to paint with too broad a brush here. From all appearances, at least here at the beginning, it appears it's a handful of misguided and actually criminal activity on behalf of a handful of soldiers. We have tens of thousands of soldiers currently fighting the war on terror who are doing a fantastic job under difficult circumstances. So I think it's important that we keep this in proper context and wait until we hear what the evidence is before we brush too broadly.

CONAN: Kate, thanks very much for the call.

KATE: Can I follow up?

CONAN: We really need to move along to the next senator, so I wanted to ask Mr. Cornyn one more question before we move on.

KATE: OK.

CONAN: But thank you very much. Appreciate the phone call, Kate.

KATE: Mm-hmm.

CONAN: And that question, Senator, is about the request for an additional $25 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. And I guess it's two parts: Are you going to vote to approve it? And is the president coming up a little short on this request to avoid awkward political questions about the amount Iraq and Afghanistan are going to cost next year?

Sen. CORNYN: Well, the $25 billion additional emergency funding is basically to pay for the additional troops that some have called for in Iraq. And, of course, the president said that he would respond, as had Secretary Rumsfeld, to the request of the combatant commanders in the field. And now that they have asked that the additional troops have been granted, there has to be some way to pay for them. So I hope this will not degenerate into a bipartisan-excuse me, a partisan debate about our policies in Iraq. Indeed, it appears to me that they are being responsive, the secretary of Defense, the combatant commanders to the needs on the battlefield and what we need in order to be successful. And that's something we should all support regardless of which side of the aisle we're on.

CONAN: Senator Cornyn, thanks for your time today.

Sen. CORNYN: Thank you, Neal.

CONAN: John Cornyn, Republican, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, speaking with us from Capitol Hill. Of course, he represents the state of Texas.