The News on CNBC - Transcript

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SHOW: The News on CNBC (8:00 PM ET) - CNBC

HEADLINE: Senators Mark Pryor and Susan Collins discuss prisoner abuse scandal and Donald Rumsfeld upcoming testimony

ANCHORS: JOHN SEIGENTHALER

BODY:
JOHN SEIGENTHALER, anchor:

Now to what's going to be said tomorrow when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifies before the Senate Armed Services Committee. We are joined now by two members who will be asking those questions, Arkansas Democrat Mark Pryor and Maine Republican Susan Collins.

Senators, welcome. It's good to see both of you. Thanks for being with us.

Senator MARK PRYOR (Democrat, Arkansas): Thank you for having us.

Senator SUSAN COLLINS (Republican, Maine): Thank you.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Collins, let me start with you. What do you do-what do you want to hear from Donald Rumsfeld tomorrow?

Sen. COLLINS: I have a number of questions for the secretary. I want to know when he first became aware of these very serious allegations, what steps he took to insure that the abuse was curtailed and most of all, in some ways, why the Pentagon did not come forward earlier and report this abuse to Congress, to the president and to the American people.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Pryor, as you know, there have been plenty of people on Capitol Hill who question whether or not Donald Rumsfeld should continue in his position as defense secretary. What do you think?

Sen. PRYOR: Well, I'm not one of those calling for his resignation. I think this is a very serious problem that we're seeing in the Iraq right now, and in fact, overall, Iraq is not going very well. But, you know, we have over 3,000 Arkansans on the ground in Iraq. And I can assure you that no one is more upset about this than our soldiers on the ground there because I think they have been more imperiled by these revelations than anybody else.

SEIGENTHALER: Do you think Secretary Lum-Rumsfeld misled the country?

Sen. PRYOR: I don't want to say misled. But I-I do know the information was very slow coming out. Congress is not appreciative of that. We've talked about that a lot internally. I'm sure he'll hear about that quite a bit tomorrow. But I-I don't want to say the word misled, at least not yet.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Collins, there have been questions about-about why this information came out so slowly. Can you come up with any reasons why the president of the United States wouldn't know about this? Why they would try to keep it out of the public for so long?

Sen. COLLINS: I really can't. I can understand waiting until a preliminary investigation was done of the allegations that were first reported in January. But by March, the Pentagon had sufficient information to bring charges against six soldiers. Surely at that point, there should have been a report to everyone involved. I believe that had the Pentagon come forward and voluntarily disclosed this information, expressed concern, shock and outrage and outlined the steps that it was going to take, it might well have lessened the impact in the global community.

SEIGENTHALER: What about, Senator Pryor, shutting down Abu Ghraib once and for all, finally eliminating it as a place where prisoners are held? What do you think about that?

Sen. PRYOR: Well, let me say in concept, I'm for that. I think that's a good idea. The question is practically, you know, what-what arrangements do we make on the ground in Iraq? And I don't know the answer to that. I think probably tomorrow at the hearing that subject will come up. But I-I think it is time to let those ghosts of the past go. And let's-let's move on to a new day in Iraq and get rid of this old Saddam Hussein prison.

SEIGENTHALER: I mean, Senator Collins, this is a symbol, as we know, of rape and torture under Saddam Hussein and now a symbol of American abuse as well. I mean, it's-it's horrible place. What good does it do to keep prisoners there?

Sen. COLLINS: We shouldn't be keeping prisoners there any longer. I think the prison should be razed. It is a symbol of injustice. We know that unspeakable crimes were committed there during Saddam Hussein's regime. And now, unfortunately, we know it's also been the site of abuse by a few of our soldiers.

SEIGENTHALER: Let me-let me try this question on you, Senator Collins. I mean, it's not just the substance, according to some Arab experts that we're seeing here, but it's also the tone of the administration that many-that the Arab world seems to have problems with. What do you-what do you say-I mean, is there something that the administration ought to be doing that it is not doing, in addition to just the words but how they say them?

Sen. COLLINS: Well, I give the president a great deal of credit for going on the Arab television stations. And he's also apologized for the actions by a very few of our troops. I think we-one of the unfortunate aspects of this is that it undercuts the many acts of compassion and courage by the vast majority of our American troops. And it's just-it's just unspeakably horrific that this has happened. And we need to make sure that it never happens again.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Pryor, as you-as you think back on what's happened, it looks like the Senate was really left out of this, right?

Sen. PRYOR: Well, there is no doubt about the fact that the information did not come to the Senate until after it had been aired on network television. And as you can imagine, both Democrats and Republicans are upset about that, not that, you know, we feel like we should have inside information but we certainly as the people's representatives here in Washington have a right to know. And one thing that's very frustrating is that it appears that as far back as February, this story was in the Pentagon. The Department of Defense had been doing an investigation. Apparently, now, the International Red Cross has come out and said that they had been pleading, you know, with the Pentagon to try to do something about this prison. And all the time, we had no idea any of this was going on.

So bo-like I said, both Democrats and Republicans are very upset about the way this story's been handled by the White House and the Pentagon.

SEIGENTHALER: Senator Pryor, Senator Collins, it's good to have you on the program. And we'll be watching you tomorrow. Thanks very much.

Sen. COLLINS: Thank you.

Sen. PRYOR: Thank you so much.