CBS "Face The Nation" - Transcript

Interview

MR. SCHIEFFER: Today on "Face the Nation," will the Democratic nomination finally be decided Tuesday in Indiana and North Carolina? It's coming down to the wire with the races in both states with primary contests this week tightening up. How much has the Pastor Wright controversy hurt Senator Obama? Could Senator Clinton win North Carolina? We'll ask Representative James Clyburn, the Democrat from South Carolina. How does Senator Obama win over white, working- class voters? And will Senator Clinton's gas tax holiday fly? We'll talk with Obama supporter Mayor Doug Wilder of Richmond Virginia and Clinton supporter Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana.

I'll have a final word on political spin. Is it causing us to redefine what we call truth? But first, coming down to Indiana and North Carolina on "Face the Nation."

(Announcements.)

MR. SCHIEFFER: Good morning again. Joining us from Columbia, South Carolina this morning, the House Majority Whip James Clyburn.

Congressman, we want to welcome you to the broadcast. You are the one, of course, who suggested some days ago that perhaps Hillary Clinton was staying in this race in hopes of tearing down Senator Obama to the point that he couldn't win, thus setting it up so she could run against a Republican four years from now. I want to ask you in a minute, do you still feel that way?

But first, I want to talk about what's going on in your neighboring state of North Carolina. Senator Clinton seems to be closing the gap there. Do you think it is because of this controversy that has engulfed Senator Obama over his pastor, Jeremiah Wright? What do you think has caused this?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, Bob, there's no question about it. Thank you so much for having me on this show. But there's no question that Reverend Wright's controversy has in fact been a distraction. It has taken both campaigns off course into discussions about things that all of us would like to get behind us. And so knowing South Carolina and North Carolina pretty well, Reverend Wright's comments haven't been helpful to the discourse at all.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Well you, of course, are neutral in this race. But why do you think it is that Senator Obama is having so much trouble -- it's got to be more than just this controversy -- having so much trouble getting through to blue-collar voters in these recent primaries?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I think it's because a lot of times we tend to emphasize the people's achievements in life rather than to emphasize from whence they came. I do believe that the extent that Senator Obama can begin to tell his life story and begin to get these blue-collar workers to understanding what it's like to be raised by a single parent, what it's like to be handed off to your grandparents, what it's like to overcome all of these obstacles, many of the obstacles that they can identify with. To the extent to which he can begin to tell that story and share it with the voters, he will do better with blue-collar workers.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Do you think he's done enough to separate himself from Jeremiah Wright? He pretty much split the blanket there with his remarks last week. Is there anything more that he can do?

REP. CLYBURN: I don't see how he can do much more. I did hear earlier this morning that he is emphasizing that he joined the church, and there's a big difference between the church and the pastor. I know. I was born and raised in a parsonage. And the church is the representative of the body of Christ, not the pastor. And I think that he's doing well now to let people know that he is identified with the church. They now have a new pastor. Reverend Wright is the ex- pastor. And so that, I think, is serving him very, very well.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Do you -- and this is just to be in all candor -- do you think some white people might be using this controversy as a reason to vote against Senator Obama when they might have other reasons?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, we all mask our intentions sometimes, and I don't think it's just white people. I think there are some black people. I've heard them in my conversations. I noticed who were around Reverend Wright at the National Press Club, all of those -- none of those that I saw were white people. And so I do believe that these kinds of issues are sometimes used to mask people's other intentions. And so I wouldn't limit it to just white people. I think people look for cover in these kinds of issues.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me go back and ask you about those comments you made about Bill Clinton and about Hillary Clinton when you said that you thought that perhaps they were trying to damage Senator Obama in such a way that he would lose this time around and thus you would have a Republican elected and that Hillary Clinton could then run again four years from now. That this was some kind of long-term strategy. Do you really believe that?

REP. CLYBURN: Mr. Schieffer, I never said that I did. What I said was there are 103 historical black colleges and universities in this country. Seven of them are in my congressional district. And what I was saying is as I've visited those campuses in recent weeks, that is what these young people were saying to me. They were very, very upset at all this talk about superdelegates overturning their energies and overturning their efforts. They wanted to know from me whether or not I felt that this is what was going to happen. And a lot of them were saying that they felt that all of this talk about Senator Obama were just ways to damage him permanently for making it impossible for him to win even if he were to get the nomination.

So I was sharing with the American people what young people were beginning to say. And I was also saying that these young people have come into this party to the extent that I have not seen in 40 years. And we ought not be doing or saying anything to tamp down their enthusiasm. When I represent all of these young people in the Congress, I want to be their voice. And so I was expressing their voice.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Talking about those superdelegates, in your opinion, what would happen if Senator Obama came into the Democratic convention, he was ahead in popular votes, he had the lead in delegates, and it would take almost landslide victories for Senator Clinton in every one of the remaining contests for this to be otherwise? If he came in with the most delegates and somehow the superdelegates decided to give the nomination to Senator Clinton, what do you think the result of that would be, Congressman?

REP. CLYBURN: This all depends upon the content and context. The fact still remains that after June 3rd when all of this is over, who knows what will happen? Who knows what could come into this process at the end? The superdelegates, or I like to call unpledged delegates, are free to vote their will. They are free to take all of these things into account. And I think that they should.

What they are not free to do, in my opinion, is to just outright reject or overturn, without sufficient cause, what may have happened in these various caucuses and these primaries. And that's where we have to be very, very careful. Don't do it just because you've got the power to do it but have good reasons if it comes to that.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, what do you think will happen to those black voters? Are they going to turn out for Hillary Rodham Clinton? Let's say she does get the nomination. What will she have to do to get a large African-American turnout? Will she have to, for example, put Senator Obama on the ticket with her? Or are there other things she can do?

REP. CLYBURN: Oh, I don't think so. I don't think it's all on Senator Clinton's plate if she were to get the nomination. I think the most important person in this process going forward will not be the person who is number one but the person who is number two. The person who finishes second in this will be very, very important for all of our constituents to come together. And so I believe that all of us who are involved in this process are going to be responsible for doing what is necessary to bring our party back together, and I think that we will, irrespective of which one of these people get the nomination. Democrats are going to be together coming out of our convention in August, and we are going to do what is necessary to win this presidential election come November.

MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Congressman, we want to thank you for dropping by this morning. And we hope to check with you again as we go down the campaign trail.

We'll be back in just one minute to talk to Doug Wilder, who's supporting Obama, and Evan Bayh from Indiana, who is supporting Senator Clinton.

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