Hearing of the Democratic Policy Committee - Contracting Abuses in Iraq

Statement

Hearing of the Democratic Policy Committee - Contracting Abuses in Iraq

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SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just join my colleagues in thanking you for your oversight in this area and for the numerous hearings that we've had and for the testimony today.

Thank you for coming forward.

Much of your testimony is just shocking and surprising when you look at some of the details here -- Mr. Halley, particularly -- everything from excessive billing to excessive workforce to fraudulent invoices to black-market weapons to prosecution, and it just seems to go on and on.

Your particular quote where you say it was clear to me that once you knew the right people in Iraq projects could just be created with little emphasis on contract performance. That seems to permeate what the others have been saying. And it makes me wonder where was the Department of Defense in this whole equation. And as more and more issues surface, where was the Department of Defense -- where were people in Washington, D.C., concerned about these kinds of activities?

And so I guess my question is, what -- I mean, on a scale of one to 10 as zero being no interest and 10 being of high interest and alert, where was DOD in their oversight and involvement with these contracts, at least to your knowledge?

MR. HALLEY: In my case, I had never saw any DOD officials actively investigating any of the cases or any of the contracts that I had been associated with.

SEN. CANTWELL: So on a scale of zero to 10, what would you say --

MR. HALLEY: I would say their interest would be 10 which would be none -- if I'm correct.

SEN. CANTWELL: Zero being no interest to --

MR. HALLEY: It would be a zero, absolutely.

SEN. CANTWELL: Okay. Ms. Warren?

MS. WARREN: The same. I would say zero.

MR. CASSADAY: Well, to be perfectly fair about it, I'd have to say maybe a two on there. It seemed like some people did care but not enough.

And, of course, as far as KBR went, they cared about themselves and they protected their own backs. That's about the way it was.

SEN. CANTWELL: And given that there's now been many of these hearings and many people coming forward and I know that your situations have changed and you may not be in the same positions of information, but assuming you're following this -- I'm sure you're following the evolution of this issue -- where would you say DOD is today now that we've heard so many stories and so many issues coming forward? Do you think that there is more oversight? Do you think there's more active involvement from Washington, D.C. on these defense contracts?

MR. HALLEY: I would say that they have escalated their efforts from what I've read and from conversations I've had with people still working in Iraq. However, it seems like the emphasis is for the contractors making sure that you dot your I's and cross your T's and that you comply, at least paperwork-wise, in order to pass an audit. And I think -- from what I can tell that as long as you have done that, then you won't be scrutinized heavily.

SEN. CANTWELL: And so you think issues of fraudulent invoices and excessive billing and things of that nature will be discovered, or you're saying that that's been a pretty good deterrent, or --

MR. HALLEY: I don't think that -- really, that anyone's really, outside of maybe the hearings and maybe Congressman Waxman, that anyone's seriously looking at these issues.

SEN. CANTWELL: So you would say DOD is aware then, on a scale of zero to 10 now, after all of this?

MR. HALLEY: Maybe they're putting forth at least a on-face effort, from what I've read and from my interpretation. And I keep up fairly well with what's going on in Iraq.

SEN. CANTWELL: Okay. Ms. Warren or Mr. Cassaday, do you --

MS. WARREN: I still have a brother who works for VirTech (sp) in Iraq, but I don't keep up with the news. For my own mental illness, after what I've been through, I don't watch -- I don't -- so I don't know. I can't comment.

MR. CASSADAY: Well, my understanding is, from watching everything on the news, reading the magazines and talking to other people that's come back, it has gotten better over there, because they know they're being watched. And some of the contracts have been taken away from KBR and given to other companies. They know they have to, like I say, cross their T's and dot their I's and make sure that they're not doing anything as bad as KBR did.

I personally think it's getting better. If I had to put it on a scale of -- not being there for two years -- I'd have to say it's probably up there in the range of a four or five right now. It has to be getting better.

SEN. CANTWELL: But still a lot of concern for the -- I'm getting a sense that dotting the I's and crossing the T's, given some of the pervasive nature of these contracts, that that's not enough; that you think that -- that people might be able to dot the I's and cross the T's and still, underneath the contracts, have very big problems. Is that correct?

MR. CASSADAY: That would be my best guess.

MR. HALLEY: I'd have to agree with that, too.

MS. WARREN: I would say that's correct. And there's one thing I think maybe you don't understand when, I think, employees have not come forth, even though they are dotting their I's and crossing their T's. Because when you were threatened over there, they didn't threaten to take away your uplift for working in a war zone. They threatened to put you out on the streets of Baghdad during the riots, and they had the power to do that.

I believe there are employees who are not coming forward for those reasons still.

SEN. CANTWELL: Thank you, Ms. Warren, for your testimony.

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