Panel I of a Hearing of the East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee-The Crisis in Tibet: Finding a Path to Peace

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): Thank you, Madame Chair. I certainly appreciate your holding this hearing -- very important, certainly very, very timely. I, too, look forward to the testimony from the very distinguished panels that you have assembled, and I think that they will be in a position to give all of us a great deal of information, not only on this subcommittee but truly to all those who care about Tibet.

The loss of life as a result of the protests in Lhasa and the Tibet Autonomous areas, whether it's the loss of a Tibetan monk or a Han Chinese or any other civilian, I think we would all agree is highly, highly regrettable. I believe that there's a generally shared view within this room that just as protests on the part of the Tibetan monks should be peaceful, the Chinese authorities must also differentiate between peaceful protesters and rioters. The aggressive tactics in this conflict have only served to escalate the level of violence and inflame passions truly around the world.

I do share the concern of many about the inability of the international media and the nongovernmental organizations to freely report on the conditions in Tibet, for without this transparency it is -- it's truly difficult to distinguish the truth from the rumor.

I'm also very concerned about the reports of this patriotic education campaign, where the Tibetan monks are forced to denounce their culture and denounce the Dalai Lama. Perhaps the inflammation of the passions is the intent, whether it's to put pressure on the international community over the upcoming summer Olympics and to highlight the plight of the Tibetan people and their culture or to stoke a sense of nationalism to solidify opinion at home. Whatever it may be, what it has not done, however, is brought us any closer to resolving the future of Tibet. And, in fact, it appears to have done just the opposite.

During the course of today's hearing, I'm hopeful that we'll learn more about how the events of these past six weeks have impacted the prospects for a mutually acceptable long-term solution to Tibet's future and what role the United States can and hopefully will play in that solution. I do look forward to hearing the testimonies of the witnesses, their insights, and their wisdom that they can provide on this issue.

And with that, Madame Chair, I will conclude my remarks so that we can hear from our witnesses. And thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): Thank you, Madame Chair. I want to continue this discussion about the dialogue. And you have said, Mr. Secretary, that -- repeatedly that the key is with the dialogue. And Paula Dobriansky, in her op-ed that the chairman mentioned, says meaningful dialogue presents the only viable way forward.

And yet I think all have expressed the level of frustration that the dialogue continues, and you have multiple rounds of talks, and we're really not seeing that positive action. We're not seeing the good results or really results at all coming forward.

You've also just indicated then that sanctions, at least as they might fit in with the Olympics, would only serve to inflame the tensions. And that is not the route to take.

Well, if we're not making progress on dialogue, and sanctions are not the route to take because they only further to inflame tensions, what can we do more?

MR. NEGROPONTE: We haven't made progress, or they have not made progress on dialogue. Although as you know, there have been discussions, in fits and starts, over the past years.

Since 2002, there have been seven sessions. There was dialogue previously, during the previous 20 years. Ever since Deng Xiaoping, there have been sporadic efforts at coming to some kind of an understanding.

So I don't think we should rule out the possibility. Indeed we shouldn't lose hope, that that kind of dialogue cannot be resumed at some point, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

There's also dialogue with our interlocutors in Beijing. And I think we have to keep bringing to their attention the concerns that we have about this situation.

And I would have thought, given the outpouring of reaction that there's been to the Olympics, and some of the protests that have taken place in Europe and elsewhere, that they must be very mindful of the issues that this is creating for China's image.

And I would have thought that they would have an interest in thinking hard about what they can do, through a process of dialogue and other peaceful means, to work their way out of the very difficult and unsatisfactory situation in which they find themselves at the moment.

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Well, that was going to be one of my questions.

If -- you've recognized that it really is between Tibet and China. They are the ones; they must resolve. We can offer our input and help to facilitate but sometimes maybe we're not the best facilitator or the best one to carry the message. So you look to others who can put that pressure.

And as you mentioned, the protests in Europe yesterday -- I guess it was yesterday -- in response to the Chinese demonstrations, and the boycotts of the French companies. France sent three high-level diplomats to China, to soothe the tensions over there, which makes you wonder whether China is essentially prepared now to use its economic clout to influence the international pressure on the subject of Tibet or even Taiwan, a completely different subject from today's hearing.

But it does make you wonder how can we further attempt to influence China when they don't appear to be influenceable. It's not a word, but you know my point here.

MR. NEGROPONTE: (Laughs.) I certainly do. And I think it's hard, although I think that any country, China or any other country in the world, cares about its international image. But I think more fundamentally, and as I said in my opening statement, they care about their own stability and the harmony of their own society. After all, Hu Jintao wants to create a harmonious society. Well, they've got some signs of fairly serious disharmony, if that's a word, in Tibet and in the Tibetan populated areas adjacent to the Tibetan Autonomous Region.

So I think that they've got to be encouraged to see their way through this situation and see their way to a point where they would realize, and appreciate, I hope, that their own best interests are probably served by some kind of a dialogue about meaningful autonomy and some kind of a peaceful resolution of the Tibetan situation that is respectful of Tibetan human rights and their religion within the context of Chinese sovereignty. No one here is suggesting Tibetan independence.

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Have we made any progress? You mentioned that apparently at least one guided tour was provided to a diplomat. In terms of the access that we have requested be given to diplomats and to journalists, is there anything there that we can point to where there has been a little bit of progress made?

MR. NEGROPONTE: I believe there's been a bit more access given to journalists. My ventriloquist has just told me here that we have -- that there were three tours for journalists.

SEN. MURKOWSKI: In recent months, then, or --

MR. NEGROPONTE: Since this crisis erupted. So that's to the good. I believe there's been a bit of a reduction in the profile of the security forces in terms of the display of the army and so forth. And I think there probably are some measures that if they were able to take, I think would perhaps help defuse this situation, such as lowering the security profile and taking a number of measures that wouldn't be tantamount to offering independence or anything else, but just be --

SEN. MURKOWSKI: And have we encouraged or suggested that they do just that?

MR. NEGROPONTE: Well, I certainly -- yes, and I certainly would encourage them to do them. I mean, keeping the Liberation Army's profile low, try to equip their police with less intimidating uniforms and gear, things like that. Certainly probably the more serious problems have to do with their management -- the attempts by the Beijing authorities to manage the religious affairs of the Tibetan people, which I think goes to the heart of the cultural questions at issue here.

And also to stop -- and Paula Dobriansky mentioned this in her op-ed piece -- stop the vitriolic campaign against the Dalai Lama, who, after all, does not advocate independence, does not advocate boycotting the Olympic Games, and, as I said in my remarks, we believe is a man of peace.

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Thank you, Madame Chair. I didn't have a final question, but I appreciate your suggestions, Madame Chairman, in terms of action items. I think it is important to know that as we all leave this hearing, that there is going to be more than just the same attempt at dialogue.

One quick question for you, Mr. Secretary. In terms of the financial institutions that may be at play, what role does the World Bank play in Tibet? And I'm asking the question because we've talked about, well, perhaps sanctions as they relate to the Olympics are not the way to go, but we know that in dealing with other issues, sometimes the way to get attention is through the financial route. Can you enlighten me a little bit in terms of the financial institution that would be at play here?

MR. NEGROPONTE: Right. Yeah. Well, to the best of my knowledge, they have no role in Tibet. And of course China itself at the moment is in quite a favorable financial position --

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Right.

MR. NEGROPONTE: -- with 1.6 trillion (dollars) or almost 1.7 trillion (dollars) in reserves.

And in fact, they've invested quite a bit in the economic modernization of Tibet. I think that's actually been one of the controversial issues for the Tibet residents there because there's been an issue of the migration -- the inward migration of Han Chinese into the Tibet Autonomous Region. So it's -- the impact of modernization, I think, is one of the issues for the people of Tibet.

But no, there is no role that I am aware of of the World Bank in Tibet.

SEN. MURKOWSKI: Madame Chair, recognizing that we do have two other panels, I will reserve my time. Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source