MSNBC Interview - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC Interview

MS. O'DONNELL: Senator Dick Durbin is a Democrat from Obama's home state of Illinois and an Obama supporter.

Senator, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

SEN. DURBIN: Good to be with you.

MS. O'DONNELL: Well, we mentioned it, it has been a long six weeks. (Chuckles.) Today is finally the day that the voters in Pennsylvania will vote. Everyone knows Barack Obama has spent an enormous amount of money in Pennsylvania: three to one he's outspent the Clinton campaign. If Senator Clinton wins by a wide margin, won't there be a lot of questions asked about Obama's viability moving forward?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, just understand that this state began -- Pennsylvania began very strongly in Senator Clinton's column. She had a 20-point lead or more. And Senator Obama has said he is going to wage his campaign in every single state. And so, instead of writing off Pennsylvania, he decided to come right into Pennsylvania and open up the offices and take his campaign there to the ground. And I can just tell you that as we've worked on the ground in Pennsylvania, that we've made progress. We feel good about it. At the end of the day, I can't say that we have defeated Senator Clinton; that, of course, is up to the voters.

MS. O'DONNELL: Well, Senator, let me ask you, because the Clinton campaign has been making this argument and they will make it again tonight, if Obama does not win in a state like Pennsylvania there's something wrong with Obama and his campaign because he hasn't won in a state like Ohio, Florida, Michigan, all states that are crucial in a general election campaign. How do you answer that, that this doesn't suggest there's some weakness -- that this is some weakness by Obama?

SEN. DURBIN: I can tell you that Florida and Michigan shouldn't have been on your list. Those were states both candidates agreed not to campaign in, so they don't count.

Barack Obama has won big states. He's also put in play a lot of states that Democrats have never had a chance in. At the end of the day, he will have a larger popular vote, won more primaries, more caucuses, more elected delegates than Senator Clinton. That's what the contest is about, is delegates. And unless Senator Clinton can win over 60 percent of the vote in every remaining contest and over 60 percent of the remaining uncommitted superdelegates, she can't catch the lead already that Senator Obama has in place.

MS. O'DONNELL: You're right. We've crunched the math here at NBC News, our political unit. The map is extraordinarily difficult for Senator Clinton; even if she wins by more than 10 points tonight, she still has a long way to go to make up in the popular vote.

I want to ask you, though, about the negative campaigning that has gone on. Ann Curry sat down with both Senators Clinton and Obama, each of them pointing the finger at the other campaign, essentially, about who's more negative. Take a listen.

(Begin videotaped segment.)

ANN CURRY: You don't think you've been too negative?

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY): Absolutely not. And frankly, I think that his campaign has been far more negative.

MS. CURRY: She says your campaign has been more negative than hers.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL): Yeah, well, I'm sure she said that, but I don't think there's any objective observer out there who would make that same argument.

(End videotaped segment.)

MS. O'DONNELL: (Laughs.) Senator, it is a hard-fought campaign. This goes on: "No, he did it." "No, she started it." It's kind of like that. Any way these two could ever run together, the so-called dream ticket?

SEN. DURBIN: I can't speak to that. That, of course, will be the decision of the nominee. But I will tell you there is one thing they both agree on, and that is we've got to put an end to the Bush economic policies and the Bush policy in Iraq that Senator McCain supports.

MS. O'DONNELL: But Senator, don't you think that would help unify the party if -- and I'm not asking you to wager, you know, who's on top. I mean, I know you support Senator Obama. But why not? Do you think there's so much damage done that these two could not run together?

SEN. DURBIN: Oh, I'm not going to rule it out or in. It's a decision to be made, I think, ultimately, by the nominee, who I believe will be Senator Obama.

But in the bottom -- the bottom line is, to win in November, we have to have our party united. Whoever is not the nominee has to have the courage to step up and say I waged a good fight, and now I'm calling on all my supporters to remember the bottom line. We have to win in November for real change to come to Washington and to get this nation moving forward.

MS. O'DONNELL: All right. Senator Dick Durbin, the senior senator from Illinois. I know you'll be watching as --

SEN. DURBIN: You bet.

MS. O'DONNELL: -- we'll be involved in reporting the results tonight here on MSNBC. Thank you so much.

SEN. DURBIN: Thanks, Norah.

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