Transcript: Senator Cornyn on CNN's "Late Edition"

Interview

Joining us now, two guests, the Senate's second ranking Democratic Dick Durbin of Illinois. He is joining us from Pittsburgh today. He is a strong supporter of Barack Obama. And in his home state of Texas, Republican Senator John Cornyn. He is joining us as a supporter, of course, for John McCain as well.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. Let me play for you, Senator Durbin, what Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman said this week about the state of the U.S. economy right now.

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BERNANKE: It now appears likely that real gross domestic product will not grow much, if at all over the first half of 2008 and could even contract slightly. Recession is possible.

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BLITZER: All right. So what do you, as a leader in the Senate, going to do about this possibility? He says that there could be a recession although a lot of people already -- a lot of economists already believe there is a recession? What specifically do you have on tap right now?

DURBIN: Well, we have the rebate checks which are going to America in the next several weeks. I don't know what impact that is going to have. I hope it increases consumer confidence and consumer spending. We're now working on a bipartisan housing stimulus bill which I think is good, but I think could be much broader and much more forceful in attacking this problem.

But I don't think that's the end of the story. I think we need to do more to stimulate this economy. The policies of this administration, tax cuts for wealthy people, for example, really aren't going to sustain us, aren't going to bring us out of this recession.

We have to really focus on so many working families across America who are struggling to survive. High gasoline prices, high cost of daycare and health care and college education. These things are taking their toll.

BLITZER: So Senator Durbin, I take it you want a second economic stimulus package in addition to these rebate checks that are going to go out to millions of American families starting in mid-May. You want a second economic stimulus package right now?

DURBIN: I certainly do. The obvious thing is to extent unemployment benefits. The Republicans have resisted that. But historically it's the best way to put money into the economy to families that desperately need it. And we also have to take into consideration, we need to be creating going-paying jobs for Americans right here at home. And we can create an economic stimulus package that will do that. But we need the cooperation of the White House to get it done.

BLITZER: And, Senator Cornyn, Chuck Schumer, another Democrat in the Senate, is saying he's not getting that cooperation from the Bush administration. Listen to what he said. Listen to this.

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SEN. CHARLES E. SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: We get no help on crafting a stimulus package that can get the economy going -- a second stimulus package dealing with infrastructure and unemployment and the kind of direct spending that is needed to augment the tax relief that we have passed.

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BLITZER: How important is a second economic stimulus package, Senator Cornyn?

CORNYN: Well, I think we need to be careful here. We need to do what we can. And of course, contrary to what Senator Schumer has said, we just passed a stimulus package on a bipartisan basis.

What concerns me is that it resulted in $150 billion added to the national deficit. And we need to be careful and make sure what we do is targeted in a way that will actually help people who need it the most.

I'm glad to hear Senator Durbin talk about the cost of gasoline and the cost of health care. We have frankly done nothing in Congress recently to deal with either of those issues which, even in places where the economy is doing relatively well, like here in Texas, those are areas where people are really feeling the pinch. And I think we would do well to target some of our efforts on bringing down the price of gasoline and making health care more affordable.

BLITZER: What about extended unemployment benefits, Senator Cornyn?

CORNYN: Well, you know, unemployment in Texas is about 4.1 percent. It's almost a full employment economy, it's 5.1 percent nationally. We need to help I think people with job training and help them get back into the economy if they're having a hard time. But I don't think spending a lot of extra money and adding to the debt -- I mean, everything I hear coming from my friends on the other side of the aisle is let's have the federal government spend more money. And that money comes from your pocket and mine. And I think we ought to be careful.

BLITZER: All right. What about that, Senator Durbin?

DURBIN: I can just tell you that if we really want to put an end to this recession or at least stop its progress, we have to do something decisive. I understand what Senator Cornyn is saying about the deficit. But when it came to tax breaks for wealthy people, we never heard that argument.

When we suggested we wanted pay-as-you-go, so that we would either increase some taxes or cut spending to offset these tax cuts, the Republicans said, no, we just want to add it to the deficit.

When it comes to this war, it is being added to the deficit $12 billion to $15 billion a month without being paid for. But when we suggest putting money in this economy to help struggling families, unemployed families and those who are trying to get by, the Republicans quickly say, oh, this is a big deficit problem.

I just don't understand their priorities. We ought to be focusing on good-paying jobs right here in America, good jobs that are going to invigorate this economy and get us beyond these recessionary concerns.

BLITZER: All right. Let me let Senator Cornyn respond to that, go ahead.

CORNYN: Well, Wolf, if we raise taxes in order to pay for all of these bailouts that Senator Durbin is talking about, it's going to come from somewhere. And what -- it's going to depress the economy in a way that I think none of us want.

So I just think we need to be very careful on how we approach this and make sure we're not making things worse but actually making things better. If we do that, I think we can do it on a bipartisan basis.

BLITZER: Senator Cornyn, here are some startling numbers that were included in this latest CBS News/New York Times poll. The question was, are things going better today, worse today or about the same as they were five years ago? Only 4 percent thought that things were better today, 78 percent thought things were worse today. Only 17 percent thought things were about the same today.

If you translate those numbers into politics right now, usually the party in power in the White House gets the most of the blame if things are going in the wrong direction as opposed to the right direction. How worried are you politically, not only in terms of the presidential race but in races for the Senate and the House that the Republicans could suffer big time?

CORNYN: Well, of course, Wolf, in 2006, Republicans took a drubbing and put Democrats in power, people like my friend Dick Durbin and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. And it's really up to them, I think, to show the leadership that is necessary to work with us on a bipartisan basis and try to address some of these issues.

BLITZER: What about the president?

CORNYN: Well, the president certainly has a responsibility. But he can't pass any legislation without the cooperation of our Democratic majority-holders in the Senate and in the House. So it's going to take the kind of bipartisan cooperation we saw in the initial stimulus package. But I think it's also going to have to take a bit of care and not to make sure we make things worse by growing the size of government, increasing taxes and depressing the economy further.

BLITZER: How much of a hit are you going to take, Senator Durbin, the Democrats, as a result of this mood out there that the country is simply moving in the wrong direction right now, now that Democrats for more than a year have been the majority in the Congress?

DURBIN: Yes, but I think those who have watched closely understand the Republicans have initiated 62 filibusters last year, a record-breaking number. It was an attempt by the Republicans in the Senate to stop any effort for change, any effort for progress.

And whether we're talking about changing the policy in the war in Iraq or moving this economy forward, it's the Republicans in the Senate that have stopped us with their filibusters. That's the argument we're making for electing more Democratic senators.

I just have to say the bottom line is this: 81 percent of Americans say our country is moving in the wrong direction. And they specified that it's the war in Iraq as well as the economy.

Now Senator John McCain is running on the Bush economic policies and the Bush Iraq policy. I think that is a portent of bad things to come for the party unless he changes his position.

BLITZER: The Senate and the House, Senator Cornyn, this week, will be hearing temperature from General David Petraeus, the U.S. military commander in Iraq, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the ambassador in Baghdad.

On the eve of their testimony, this coming week, General Barry McCaffrey, retired U.S. Army four-star general -- he offered this bleak assessment of what the government of Nouri al-Maliki, in Iraq, is up to right now. I'll play a little clip for you.

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GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY (USA, RET.): The Maliki government, in a general stance, is completely dysfunctional. There isn't a province in Iraq, from the ones that are in Kurdish north that are economically and politically doing OK...

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BLITZER: All right, that's a pretty bleak assessment from a respected military analyst, a four-star general.

How worried are you about the current situation in Iraq unraveling?

CORNYN: Well, I'm very concerned. And that's why I think we need to continue to make sure that we leave Iraq in a condition that it can govern and defend itself.

I was last there in January, and very encouraged by the progress on the military front. The Iraqis are stepping up, taking more responsibility, paying more of the bills. And about two-thirds of the benchmarks, on the political side, that Congress set in 2007 have now been met.

And finally, I would say the initiative that the prime minister -- that President Maliki took in Basra, recently, without American support, except in follow-up, the initiative he took against the Shiite militias, criminals and gangs, I thought was encouraging.

So we need to see more of that, and need the Iraqis to stand up so we can stand down and bring our folks home.

BLITZER: You wanted, Senator Durbin, the government, the Iraqi military to stand up and defeat those various militias. They tried to do it in Basra. They're trying to do it in Sadr City and Baghdad, against the radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

I assume you applaud that.

DURBIN: Well, of course, we want to see the Iraqis stand up. But I have to agree with General McCaffrey. This government, the Maliki government, has been dysfunctional, in terms of the progress they've made.

Imagine, General Petraeus is coming to Washington this week to observe the first anniversary of a temporary surge with no end in sight. That tells the whole story.

If that surge had really worked on a strategic basis, American forces would be coming home. Instead, they're still in place, dying every day. That's the reality of the situation.

I can't understand why we don't step back and look at the reality. The Iraqis, sadly, are not reaching the point where they're going to stand up, in a war that lasted longer than world war ii.

BLITZER: All right. Senator Cornyn, give us the context of what senator McCain, the Republican presidential presumptive nominee, meant when he said U.S. troops could potentially stay in Iraq for as long as 100 years.

CORNYN: Well, of course, he didn't mean in the capacity in which they're currently there. And I would say to my friend Senator Durbin, after the surge is reversed, essentially, by next summer, we'll see a reduction of about 40,000 American troops.

And certainly, I hope we would all agree that that's a good trend. And we hope that it would continue.

But, of course, we have agreements with countries all around the world, in places where we have fought wars, mutual cooperation agreements, mutual security agreements.

And being the one remaining superpower in the world, I think that is something we would see as constructive, not destructive.

And so we're not talking about anything like the capacity in which we're serving now. Our goal, on a bipartisan basis, is to bring the troops home. And I would hope we would agree we would bring them home when Iraq is able to govern and defend itself.

BLITZER: We're almost out of time. But a quick question to you, Senator Durbin, as a strong supporter of Barack Obama.

The liberal radio talk show host Ed Shultz said on Friday these words at a fund-raiser for Obama. He said, "He voted for this war," referring to John McCain. "He's a perpetrator of the war. He's an advocate of the war. In my personal definition, that's a warmonger."

Now, the Obama campaign put out a statement saying that the senator, Senator Obama, does not believe that John McCain is a warmonger. But should he go further in dissociating himself from Ed Shultz, this liberal radio talk show host?

DURBIN: Well, let me tell you, Barack Obama was not there when the statement was made. He's put out a statement saying he does not agree with that, he disagrees with it.

And I can tell that you Barack Obama and Senator McCain have worked together on many issues in the United States Senate.

The bottom line that we have to understand, here, is that Senator McCain is suggesting a long-term commitment in Iraq. If you look at the front page of the New York Times today, we have pushed our military to the absolute limit.

General McCaffrey has said the Iraq war is breaking the U.S. Army. General Cody has said we cannot sustain this kind of military commitment. The president and Senator McCain should be very sensitive to this and understand we cannot keep our military in this position indefinitely.

They should support the Webb amendment. Senator Jim Webb wants to give more down-time so our troops, between deployments, can reunite with families and be retrained and re-equipped before they're reassigned. But unfortunately, the Republicans in the Senate have opposed it.

BLITZER: I'll give you the last word. Senator Cornyn. Go ahead.

CORNYN: Well, I expect the president will announce that reduction in the length of tours for our Army. I agree that the Army has gotten too small for our security interests around the world.

And, of course, Congress, on a bipartisan basis, has said we need to grow the end strength of the Army and Marine Corps. But I would hope that none of us would do anything which would risk another failed state like we saw in Afghanistan, which gave the rise to the Taliban and Al Qaida and, of course, with the terrible consequences of September 11.

We don't want that to happen in Afghanistan again. And we don't want that to happen in Iraq, either.

BLITZER: Senator Cornyn, thanks for coming in.

CORNYN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Senator Durbin, thanks to you as well.

A good discussion here on "Late Edition."

DURBIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead, the economy and the presidential race. Are the candidates offering the right plans to try to ease the turmoil right now?

You're watching "Late Edition," the last word in Sunday talk.

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