ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript
Interview
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, everyone. The resignation letters were flying this week -- Eliot Spitzer in New York, Admiral Fallon at Central Command, Geraldine Ferraro from the Clinton campaign, and Reverend Jeremiah Wright from Obama. All against the backdrop of an economy almost certainly in recession and a prolonged race for the Democratic nomination that gets more bitter by the day.
Speaker, how are you? Good to see you.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Hello, George. Welcome back to the Speaker's office.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good to be back.
And that's where we begin in my exclusive interview with the country's top Democrat, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We spoke on the Capitol on Friday.
A lot of Democrats are worried about the tone of this presidential campaign right now. Are you one of them?
REP. PELOSI: I think the tone could be improved. I definitely do, and I think that what I am pleased about is that we have two fabulous candidates -- Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, loaded with talent, attracting record amounts of support, new people into the process, great excitement surrounding both of them, and that bodes well for us in November.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You think they're both great, but they're going at each other.
REP. PELOSI: Well, I think their people are going at each other, and I think that that's wearing out. I don't think people are interested in that. But I do think that before we go to the convention, we will have a nominee. We'll go into that convention unified, we'll come out of that convention unified, and we'll be ready to win in November. I'm delighted about both of the candidates. I think both of them represent change. Either one of them can win, and whoever that is will make a great president of the United States, and I'm interested as Speaker of the House because I'm interested in what that means to our growing our majorities in the Congress of the United States.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But I have heard from a lot of Democrats that they say you believe and you're worried about the fact -- about the prospect that Senator Clinton will be more of a drag on your Democratic candidates than Senator Obama.
REP. PELOSI: I wouldn't say that. I would just say let's let that fight take place. The decision will be made by the American people, and whoever the candidate is, I'm sure it will be an asset to us as we go into the general election.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think about those comments from former vice presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro this week?
REPORTER: (From videotape.) This is how you're quoted in the newspaper, "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position --
GERALDINE FERRARO: (From videotape.) And I believe that.
REPORTER: (From videotape.) -- and if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position.
MS. FERRARO: (From videotape.) And I believe that.
REPORTER: (From videotape.) He happens to be very lucky to be who he is and the country is caught up in the concept."
MS. FERRARO: (From videotape.) Absolutely.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: She's not backing down. Senator Obama called them ridiculous and divisive. She said his campaign is playing the race card.
REP. PELOSI: I think we have to lift ourselves out of all of that. I don't -- look, we're talking about running for president of the United States. We're talking about the leader of the free world. We're talking about the hopes, the aspirations of the American people being placed -- and not like any other job in the world placed on this person. And I think people are much more interested in the ideas, the vision, the judgment, the plans that people have, and that's why people are drawn to both of these candidates.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You say people are attracted to both of these candidates, yet you were firm all week long.
REP. PELOSI: (From videotape.) I said I thought it was impossible.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And it's just impossible that they're going to come together on a single ticket. How can you be so sure?
REP. PELOSI: I'm just absolutely sure. I just know it. I just know it.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But based on what? (Laughter.)
REP. PELOSI: Just know. I've been in politics a long time and I --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Forty years, right?
REP. PELOSI: -- and I've studied it very carefully, and I think that each one of them will make a great top of the ticket. And we will have a dream ticket, and it will contain one of them.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me press you on that, because you have been in politics a long time, you're Speaker of the House, yet I could make the argument that they both represent two completely different sides of the party -- Barack Obama bringing in African-Americans, young people, independents; Senator Clinton bringing in hardcore Democrats, blue collar Democrats, women especially. If you put them together, as President Clinton says, they could be an unstoppable force, whoever is on top.
REP. PELOSI: I don't subscribe to it. I think both of them can attract each other's supporters without each other.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You're not worried about that.
REP. PELOSI: No. Of course, there will be some people who will be disappointed, but both of the candidates have brought new people into the process, or reinforced the support of traditional Democrats, and I think what you have to look at is the contrast between who we are offering and what the Republicans have to say. And that is a chasm. The differences here are minor. It's a chasm -- (inaudible).
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But even your leader, Steny Hoyer, said that especially with the tone of the campaign right now, African- Americans and women take this debate personally and they could be turned off by it.
REP. PELOSI: Well, I would say that it isn't about African- Americans and women. African-Americans, young people, people with higher education, they each bring something beyond women and African- Americans. That would not define their campaigns that narrowly. But I know that we will have a strong vote of women for whoever the Democratic nominee is and I know we'll have a strong vote of young people, African-Americans, and others of the Obama support for whoever the Democratic nominee is.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You're in the key position right now. You're the chair of the convention. You're the highest ranking Democrat in the country right now, and I know you hope that --
REP. PELOSI: And I'm hoping that -- (laughs).
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I know you hope you're not going to be needed or called upon, but there's a real prospect that there's going to be a split. You've said the superdelegates should not be dispositive. What does that mean?
REP. PELOSI: Here's what I said -- (unintelligible). What I said was if the votes of the superdelegates overturn what happened in the elections, it would be harmful to the Democratic Party.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So if someone wins the pledged delegates and --
REP. PELOSI: There must be some reflection --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- popular vote, they should be the nominee.
REP. PELOSI: Well, again, this works itself out. I don't think all of these things will be black and white. I think everything will be --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's why you're going to be key. They're going to call on your to resolve this, aren't they?
REP. PELOSI: This is going to be over before we go to the convention. This is going to be -- pretty soon somebody will be far enough in front that this will come to an end.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: If not, are you willing to step in?
REP. PELOSI: Well, I believe that this will be over. One way or another we will have a candidate.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But what if one candidate has won the popular vote and the other candidate has won the delegates?
REP. PELOSI: It's a delegate race. In other words, one wins the Electoral College and one wins the popular vote -- guess who's president of the United States. The way the system works is that the delegates choose the nominee. Most likely the scenario described will not happen.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me turn to Iraq. Last June, you wrote that the surge would not have an impact and was not having an impact on the violence as well as the political situation. Do you still believe that?
REP. PELOSI: Well, last June it was not having an impact -- the surge. In fact, I don't think it was even fully implemented. But let's remember again the purpose of the surge was to create a secure time for the government of Iraq to make the political decisions necessary to reconcile the country. Even today, Friday, General Petraeus has said that they have not done enough. We've known for a long time that they have not had the will to make the political decisions necessary and also to match the sacrifice of our troops.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But they have done more than they have in the past, and isn't that because of the breathing space provided by the surge?
REP. PELOSI: No. They haven't done anywhere near enough. General Petraeus and the generals in the region have said -- I'm not talking about retired generals. The generals in the region have said the biggest obstacle to reconciliation and peace in Iraq are not the Sunni militants or the Iranian militias or the al Qaeda. It is the government of Iraq.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But they've also cited some of the decisions the government has made.
REP. PELOSI: They've made some but they haven't gone to fulfillment. They'll make a vote and then the next committee will say, not so fast. So, look, we're five years -- March 19, feast of St. Joseph -- five years since the initiation of hostilities in Iraq. The next day, we will begin the sixth year -- well over a year and a half longer than we were in World War II. And what do we have to show for it? Trying to coax this Iraqi government into recognizing the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform -- and God bless them for their courage and patriotism, but their sacrifice is not honored by the meeker actions taken by the Iraqi government.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: General Petraeus, as you point out, has said that they have not done enough, yet, he also warns that pulling out, as you suggest, would lead to chaos.
REP. PELOSI: Well, they have chaos. The point is they have political chaos. They have not resolved their difficulties. How much longer are we supposed to wait? Both of our candidates for president as well as the majority -- bipartisan majority in the House and Senate have said that we must begin a redeployment of our troops out of Iraq, and that is what we should be doing.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you confident they're going to follow through on that? There have been some suggestions around the campaigns that maybe when they get in, they won't be able to.
REP. PELOSI: I think they will. I don't think anybody is asking to pull troops out tomorrow. It takes time to get the troops out, so we're talking about a responsible, honorable, safe redeployment of our troops out of Iraq. That could take a year, but it must begin. And the difference between that and what the Republicans or Senator McCain is proposing is a war without end.
And let me tell you why it's really important for us to begin this redeployment. Tens of thousands of our troops wounded, thousands of them permanently, cost in reputation in the world is an embarrassment. The cost in dollars is huge, hurting our own economy. The cost to our readiness, the cost to our military readiness -- even Admiral Mullen when he testified before the Congress spoke of how this engagement could impact our readiness to protect our interests wherever they are threatened. And the big interest that we have is fighting terrorism and this war has been a cost to us in the war against terrorism. We should have stayed focused on Afghanistan. So this war must end. We have to have a vision for stability in the Middle East that brings stability to that region, that makes our country safer, and that is not what the president has.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like there's not that General Petraeus could say in April that would convince you to delay calls for a withdrawal.
REP. PELOSI: Well, I don't know what General Petraeus could say. Today he is even admitting that the Iraqi government has not done enough. Now, the question is what do we do about it? I'm always open to hear what he would say.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: There's a witches' brew of bad news out there. Are we in a recession?
REP. PELOSI: Many people across our country believe that we are because of how this economy is impacting them in their homes.
I don't like to use the word because --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not?
REP. PELOSI: Well, I think that what we need now is confidence, but we have to face the reality of what is there. I was pleased than when we were finally able to pass a bipartisan stimulus package, it was because the president finally faced the reality of what was going on in the country, something any homemaker in America could have told him months ago.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And that's going to kick in in May, but do you need to start working now on another stimulus package?
REP. PELOSI: We are. We have been working on one. We started in December working with economists as to what would be a good stimulus for the economy without spending so much money that it would hamper an upturn.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Like what?
REP. PELOSI: The president has said he wants to wait to see if this one works before we go to the next place. I don't know that we have that luxury. Some of the issues that we have talked about before relate to the unemployment situation in our country, the jobs --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Extending benefits.
REP. PELOSI: Extending unemployment benefits, assisting the states. This is really important. It shows up in everything. It shows up in the subprime crisis. Barney Frank a couple of days ago announced a $10 billion package to the states for states and localities to buy up properties, rehab them, and then therefore put more housing stock back into the marketplace.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The president is giving a speech today where he's basically warning against doing too much.
PRES. GEORGE BUSH: (From videotape.) If you ever get stuck in a situation like that, you know full well it's important not to overcorrect, because when you overcorrect you end up in the ditch.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He says that is as big a danger as doing too little.
REP. PELOSI: I think that much of what the administration has done has been too late, but some of what they are proposing, we have already done in the House. I think that Chairman Bernanke has done a good job. He has seen what is happening in the economy. I think the Fed can still do more.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Lower interest rates more?
REP. PELOSI: I think there are other arrows in his quiver that the Fed has that they could do, but we've always talked about some combination of monetary policy from the Fed and fiscal policy from us to inject resources into the economy, but not overdoing it so that we don't have to again take us deeply into debt.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you worried that we're heading for an economic emergency, a financial crisis?
REP. PELOSI: But I believe that we can head that off, and some of the initiatives that we want to take relate to building infrastructure of our country, investing in the tax credits and the rest for an energy policy that will not only keep the jobs we have, but grow them.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You've mentioned these housing programs that Congressman Frank has initiated and you want to pass. It seems like the president and Secretary Paulson are resisting those. They say it's a bailout for lenders and speculators.
REP. PELOSI: We're not in for bailouts, but we do care about the economy. I think that financial institutions -- their shareholders have to take a haircut or something more than that. They have to -- it's a free enterprise system, they made an investment --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Take the loss.
REP. PELOSI: -- they're going to have to take the loss, but that doesn't mean the institution should come down because it is important to the economy. And again, what does it mean to people and America's households across the country? So it's about that, it's about the economy, and it's about acting decisively.
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