Hearing of the Senate Committee on Armed Services: United States Central Command and United States Special Operations Command in Review of the Defense Authorization Request for Fiscal Year 2009 and the Future Years Defense Program

Interview

Hearing of the Senate Committee on Armed Services: United States Central Command and United States Special Operations Command in Review of the Defense Authorization Request for Fiscal Year 2009 and the Future Years Defense Program

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And Admiral Fallon, I know my colleagues have commented on the visit of President Ahmadinejad, but I think -- is it -- and frankly, the civil -- more than civil, the warm response received in Baghdad raises a fundamental question about our strategy. Iran now seems to be more powerful than it was five years ago, both politically and, one might argue, also militarily; working not directly, but indirectly through surrogates and in Iraq itself, in Lebanon and elsewhere.

From a strategic point of view, doesn't this question our -- what we've been doing the last five years?

ADM. FALLON: Senator, I'm not sure the -- what we've been doing in regard to what?

SEN. REED: To Iran.

We've seen them grow. We have invested trillions of dollars in our efforts in the region. Iran -- I would argue -- I argued back in 2003 was a much more serious threat to stability in the region and to our interests in the region than Iraq was. And now we've seen them, frankly, become more robust, more politically accepted, and I think it underscores a fundamental strategic flaw that this administration has pursued for the last several years.

ADM. FALLON: Senator, a complex issue of Iran. I would give you maybe a little different view of Iran and their influence and their stature, if you would, in the region. As I talk to countries throughout the region and all of Iran's immediate neighbors, what I come away with is a lot of skepticism, a lot of distrust, a lot of anxiety about them.

In my opinion, their stature has not grown. To the contrary, countries are taking a very dim view of their engagement. They know the game. They know that Ahmadinejad gets out, gets a lot of face time. We see other people in other parts of the world that act in a similar manner.

But at the core of things, people are concerned. And they are engaging with us -- these are the neighbors -- to ascertain our intentions to be able to stand tall, to not knuckle under to any Iranian intimidation or pressure. They're anxious to have us support them. Nobody's looking for another conflict, but they are certainly looking for support from us in our approach. And it seems to me that that's what we ought to be trying to do, and that's certainly what I do in my engagement with these countries.

SEN. REED: So how would you assess the influence of Iran and Iraq today versus five years ago?

ADM. FALLON: Influence of Iran and Iraq? I think the situation is so different in Iraq today than five years ago that it's pretty difficult to say, because you'd have to (have ?) the conditions, and the conditions are very different. I think that --

SEN. REED: Would Ahmadinejad have made a trip to Baghdad five years ago?

ADM. FALLON: Speculation, probably not. But if you were to -- and I suspect the pollsters are out hard at work today asking the same question -- you know, "What do you think about this?" -- of the Iraqi people. Even in the south, where the Iranians have been working overtime to try to maximize their influence, there's increasing skepticism from every report that I see, from our engagement with the people there.

They're dubious of Iran's real intentions. I mean, frankly, practically, most everybody in Iraq has been happy to take their money, and they've been spreading a lot of it around, by every account. But they're now realizing that there may be other intentions here, and I'm beginning to sense a significant push-back.

And again, I don't know all the factors that are at play, particularly in the south, but I do know that things have kind of gone the other way now. And I think that as people -- first of all, as the Iraqis get more confident in their own ability, my sense is that there's going to be a little bit of -- I'm out in front of my headlights here, but every indication I have is that people are realizing there's no free lunch here.

Yes, they like the tomatoes and the potatoes and the mattresses and the other things that are helping. And I've been to the borders. I've watched this incredible amount of traffic coming across. The Iraqi people welcome the average Iranian pilgrim who wants to come and visit the shrines, and there's a tremendous traffic in there. And that's an economic benefit, of course, to the people. And you can see the interaction with them.

But I think the people are -- they're not stupid. They recognize that this is a potential double-edged sword. And I think it ought to be -- it's in our interest to continue to work with the Iraqi people. It's pretty obvious to me, if you look at just the data of responses to questions in the last six months, people -- as security and stability have expanded in this country, people have come to realize that the reason that's expanded is because of our engagement with them, and not the Iranians. They have not been particularly helpful.

So we're going to -- I think it's in our best interest to continue to engage, to continue to try to build security and stability.

And I think the Iraqi people are going to be smart enough to realize what's going on here.

SEN. REED: So you aren't troubled by the presence of the Iranians --

ADM. FALLON: Of course I am.

SEN. REED: -- politically or tactically on the ground?

ADM. FALLON: Of course I am. We want to do everything we can, and from the military standpoint, we are working overtime with our commanders to try to cut off this Iranian influence in any -- in all of its aspects inside of Iraq.

SEN. REED: There's about 60,000 Sunni militia in the CLCs that have not been integrated into the formal structure of security forces there. The government in Baghdad, heavily dominated by Shi'a and Kurds, seem reluctant to do that.

What's your estimate of this taking place, because I think there are many of that concern that if it doesn't take place in the next few months, these forces will become less supportive and cooperative of us. In fact, there was a "strike," quote, unquote, in Diyala a few days ago by CLC forces.

ADM. FALLON: Complex question. Very few free lunches or one-way streets, certainly, in this country. We have clearly welcomed the initiative of these people to step up and be willing to put themselves and their lives on the line. I think it's impractical to expect that all of these folks are going to be able to be integrated into the Iraqi security forces, and in recognition of that, General Petraeus and our team in Iraq have been working to try to have other opportunities available.

There are a number of initiatives that are beginning to be under way in and around Iraq to try to provide other opportunities, vocational training and -- it's jobs. That's the bottom line. At the end of the day, this is probably the most important thing, the number one issue with the majority of people in the country. "Give me some meaningful work and give me a future, and we'll think things are getting better."

There are issues to work through. This issue in Diyala that you mentioned has been resolved at least for now by a step, by the Iraqi central government to make an adjustment to the leadership in the security forces in Diyala that, it turned out, was acceptable to those CLCs, now called Sons of Iraq, but have -- they've seen fit to now go back on the job.

As I was out a week before last in Anbar, went all through the province looking and watching at what's going on, I saw enthusiasm among the people, those CLCs that are so effective. You go to a city like Fallujah now or Ramadi and you walk around in the city, very few American troops are seen -- and Marines in this case -- a few more Iraqi soldiers, but many more police and Sons of Iraq. They're out there doing -- it was interesting to me, as I was out and about on this last trip -- I started off with a large contingent of Marines to look out for my safety, and we got into the city. And as we got deeper into the city, it was -- I just all of a sudden turned around and the Marines just kind of faded back, and the fellas that were escorting me and pointing things out and providing security were almost all Iraqis. And they were proud of it. And the requests that I got were, "Can you please help us to get jobs? We want a future, and this is the answer."

So long answer -- I'm sorry -- to your question, but you can't -- I don't believe it's practical to make them -- put them all back in the army or the police. And we've got to work hard to make sure we have other opportunities.

Thank you.

SEN. REED: Thank you. My time's expired.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source