Hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee - Worldwide National Security Threats

Interview

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SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): (Off mike.) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Admiral, General, thank you for appearing before us today. It sounds like you have exhausted the FISA issue and some of the other issues that I had perhaps wanted to ask some questions on.

But I do have a question I'd like to ask regarding the Iraqi security forces, because General Maples, in your prepared testimony, you discussed the ISF and their overall improved capabilities in 2007. But you also stated in your prepared testimony that the ISF still suffers from the lack of trained, qualified leaders at the tactical level. And you go on to say that this fosters a climate in which individuals remain vulnerable to improper political and criminal influence.

Do you have any kind of an estimate at all on when it's likely that the ISF will be able to stand on its own and, as you have said, win popular recognition as a legitimate guarantor of Iraqi security?

GEN. MAPLES: Sir, first of all, I think the Iraqi security forces have made great strides, and particularly over the course of the last year, the army has grown by nearly 55,000 in that time. We have also seen that with an effort to provide additional soldiers into the force, that many of the units now are well over 100 percent strength in their organizations. That, however, does not give the true picture, because they are still lacking, particularly in the middle grades.

They're lacking in their NCO corps. They're lacking, in their noncommissioned officer corps, the kind of professional leadership that really does enable a force. And I know that that's a great effort right now on the part of our forces, who are providing training and equipping -- to the Iraqi armed forces.

The greatest concern with the Iraqi armed forces, of course, is the logistic support, the combat service support, and the combat support capabilities that they would require to stand on their own. There are a number of initiatives that are underway right now to try to improve the logistic support to the Iraqi armed forces that are short-term processes. I believe that over the course of the next year and a half, the Iraqis have projected that they will be functionally sufficient to be able to support themselves.

The longer-term issue, I think, for the Iraqi armed forces is when they will reach the capability at a higher end, when they'll have a full complement of capability in order to defend their borders. And for that purpose, they've laid out a 10-year plan in order to purchase the arms and equipment that will enable them to operate at that level.

Nevertheless, with the divisions that they currently have -- 11 on the books, going to 12 -- and the strength that they have in those units, plus how they have been able -- if they are able to take advantage of the Sons of Iraq, the concerned local citizens' group, and incorporate them in some way into the Iraqi security forces. I would say that over the course of the next two to three years they're going to have a greater capability to sustain themselves on operations.

They're increasingly able to now certainly take the lead, particularly on counterinsurgency operations. The issue is how they sustain the force for the longer term.

SEN. THUNE: And just in terms of the culture of the military, and you mentioned in your testimony this susceptibility or vulnerability to improper political and criminal influence. Assuming, say, for example, that -- as you have suggested, that their capability continues to grow, the numbers continue to grow -- if they are left on their own, is this going to be an issue that is going to really weaken their ability, absent U.S. support, to protect the Iraqi people and to provide security for the country?

GEN. MAPLES: I still think it has to be an Iraqi solution to this and, therefore, we've got to grow the quality of noncommissioned officers and officers that they need in the force.

There is some belief that the passage of the de-Ba'athification law may help us in this regard if, in fact, it will enable us to enable members, former members of the Iraqi military who have experience in leadership roles, particularly from among the Sunni population, and to bring them back into the military as noncommissioned officers and mid-grade officers, into the force structure.

And I think that that will help alleviate the problem that I allude to -- or, that I state in my statement for the record.

SEN. THUNE: Admiral McConnell, much has been written about the growing capability of cyberspace threats. What type of cyberspace threats do you view as the most dangerous, and do you think that we're currently prepared to deal with these threats on both civil and military sides?

MR. MCCONNELL: Sir, we're not prepared to deal with it. That's the reason for the initiative.

Let me separate the threat in terms of exploitation of data, which countries like Russia and China, and so on, will try to capture information and take it out of this country. One estimate I've seen is that volume was something in the terabyte, 20 terabytes, whatever you call it; the data that was taken out of the Department of Defense, the Department of State, universities, companies, the Congress and so on. So that's one level of threat.

The threat that also concerns us a great deal, and maybe even more so, is if someone has the ability to enter information in systems, they can destroy data. And the destroying data could be something like money supply, electric power distribution, transportation sequencing and that sort of thing.

So our worry right now is the military's probably the best protected. The federal government is not well-protected and the private sector is not well-protected. So the question is, how do we take some of the things that we've developed for the military side, scale them across the federal government. And the key question will be, how do we interact with the private sector? And that's the process we're trying to work through right now.

SEN. THUNE: And do you see non-state actors becoming credible threats?

MR. MCCONNELL: Yes, sir. The issue here is, think of it as one global Net. And the cost of entry is low. You need a few people that are gifted in computer science and electrical engineering and that sort of skill set, and some computers. So you can remotely, at some location, if you are good enough, enter into a data stream and get access.

In terms of exploitation, usually if you're in that business, you want to be able to take something, information, and leave no fingerprints. That's pretty challenging. If your objective was strictly to break in and destroy, it's less of a challenge. So while we haven't seen terrorist groups exhibit this kind of behavior as of yet, it's a tool set that's available to them, they're talking about, and I suspect at some point they will try to have that capability.

SEN. THUNE: I want to ask you one other question. I guess I want to direct this to General Maples. But it has to do with the Chinese antisatellite test that last year, I think, surprised quite a few people. Do you see antisatellite weapons as a mature threat? And, if not, when do you expect them to be a serious threat? And then, as a follow-on, are these types of systems being proliferated?

GEN. MAPLES: Sir, of course, the launch last year, January of last year, was a direct-ascent SE-19 by the Chinese. Clearly it was effective in the launch that was taken. And we can see continued development on the direct-ascent kind of capability.

I don't necessarily see a proliferation of that particular direct-ascent kind of capability, but there are other kinds of capabilities that are antisatellite capabilities that we do see a proliferation of, some of which are kinetic and belong to nations today, some of which are non-kinetic kinds of capabilities that would provide either jamming or blinding kinds of capabilities that would threaten our communities and our satellite systems.

SEN. THUNE: It's also been recently reported that China is selling up to 24 J-10 advanced fighter aircraft to Iran. Do you see this as an isolated incident or a more troubling trend of the proliferation of advanced fighter aircraft?

GEN. MAPLES: I think it is a greater trend. And there are more nations that are seeking advanced fighter aircraft. And Chinese export of weapons is also a concern to us.

SEN. THUNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

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