Hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee - Missile Defense and the FY2005 DOD Budget

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: MISSILE DEFENSE AND THE FY2005 DOD BUDGET

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR JOHN WARNER (R-VA)

LOCATION: 325 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

WITNESSES: MICHAEL WYNNE, ACTING UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR ACQUISITION, TECHNOLOGY AND LOGISTICS; ADMIRAL JAMES O. ELLIS, JR., USN, COMMANDER, U.S. STRATEGIC COMMAND; THOMAS P. CHRISTIE, DIRECTOR, OPERATIONAL TEST AND EVALUATION; LIEUTENANT GENERAL RONALD T. KADISH, USAF, DIRECTOR, MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY; LIEUTENANT GENERAL LARRY J. DODGEN, USA, COMMANDER, SPACE AND MISSILE DEFENSE COMMAND

BODY:
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

General Kadish, in your written testimony you say, quote, "It's important to understand that in the missile defense program, we use models and simulations and not flight tests as the primary verification tools."

But Mr. Christie, in your recent report to Congress, you point out, quote, "Due to the immature nature of the system, models and simulations of the ballistic missile defense system cannot be adequately validated at this time," unquote. You also said in your prepared testimony today, quote, "Modeling and simulation are not a good substitute for integrated system testing." There seems to be a variance here on views about modeling and simulation.

But is it fair to say, Mr. Christie, that the missile defense program is neither fully-integrated nor mature enough to develop models and simulations that can be validated as correct?

MR. CHRISTIE: That's right, sir.

SEN. REED: Thank you. And so when we simulate a launch of a North Korean missile against the United States, this simulation can't be shown to be fully correct yet because the system is still too immature?

MR. CHRISTIE: I didn't understand the question; I can't hear you.

SEN. REED: Let me repeat it. If we simulate a launch of a North Korean missile against the United States, this simulation cannot be shown to be fully correct yet because the system is still too immature?

MR. CHRISTIE: I would say that. But as we go on during this year, we will mature some of the components of this test bed that will be from part of the IDO, that we will have more confidence in the ability of these systems to act as they were designed.

Now, as of right now, no.

SEN. REED: So at this time, we cannot be sure that the actual system would work against a real North Korean missile threat.

MR. CHRISTIE: I would say that's true.

SEN. REED: That we're not sure. Thank you.

MR. CHRISTIE: At this point in time, that's true.

SEN. REED: The next major flight test of the ground-based missile defense system is called IFT-13C. According to the official test plan provided to the Congress, IFT-13C will use the global positioning system or GPS to guide the interceptor to the target. The target has a GPS receiver on it and it broadcasts its position down to the missile defense system. I think it's safe to say that a real threat would never have a GPS system broadcasting its position down to the defense system.

General Kadish, you plan to deploy this system in September. Do any of the tests between now and September not include this GPS device to signal the presence of the target?

GEN. KADISH: First, I'd like to say why the GPS system is on target. It's for safety purposes to make sure that we can control the flight test properly.

SEN. REED: It has nothing to do with cueing the target?

GEN. KADISH: That's the primary reason why the GPS is on the target. The secondary reason is that we are not able to have the radar in the right spot for this test, an operationally useful spot. That's why we need to build a test bed to some degree. So our only method of actually simulating that sensor is for the GPS process to provide that input. But, it will provide that input just as the sensor that we're simulating would.

SEN. REED: When will the sensors that you're simulating be in place?

GEN. KADISH: They'll never all be perfectly aligned in any test that we do. Starting next-I can't remember the exact date, but over the next 18 to 24 months we are going to remove as much artificiality from the test, and make it as realistic as we can.

SEN. REED: When will these sensors be in place so that you do not have to rely on a GPS system?

GEN. KADISH: For testing or for operations?

SEN. REED: First for testing?

GEN. KADISH: In testing, I think-I'd have to get you an answer to that question, I just don't remember.

SEN. REED: Is it safe to say after deployment, after September?

GEN. KADISH: We're doing a lot of testing, I just don't know.

SEN. REED: That's a very unsatisfactory answer, General. I mean, you tell me you're planning these tests out many, many months, you know you're deploying in September. It's very simple, are you going to be using the GPS system --

GEN. KADISH: But, Senator, I don't look at the test program before or after IDO as an end point or a start point. I look at the test program for the next five years --

SEN. REED: General, this is a very simple question. Will you be using this GPS system on the target missiles after September deployment dates?

GEN. KADISH: To some degree, I think we will. I just don't know the details.

SEN. REED: So we're deploying a system which we can't simulate through, and validate the simulations of a North Korean attack, and we're relying on GPS for engagement. It just confounds in my mind the idea of deploying these systems. Testing it is something, but standing up there and saying, this is a deployed system that will protect this country against a real threat stretches my imagination. Let me go on.

We've heard a lot of testimony today about the-Mr. Christie, your operational tests organization. I have a quote from the plan submitted to Congress about IFT-13C. Quote: "IFT-13C is a prime contractor planned and joint program office-approved development tests. Because of prime contractor and joint program office constraints, little opportunity exists for import of unique operational test agency team requirements." What this suggests to me is that you're not controlling these tests at all, that the contractors are controlling the tests, BMD is controlling the tests.

MR. CHRISTIE: BMD is controlling the tests, I'm not controlling the tests, because they are developmental tests. We are quite successful, I think, in getting more operational ingredients into these tests, but they are-these are R&D, you know, development tests.

SEN. REED: I think that's right, but I heard the dialogue before, in response to Senator Levin's question about it's not clear whether these are development tests or operational tests-there's some development parts; there's some operational parts. The key-one of the key aspects of an operational test is that you control the test, not the contractors. So this quibbling about what's operational and what's development has to be settled. These are developmental tests?

MR. CHRISTIE: That's right.

SEN. REED: Thank you.