Afternoon Session of a Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee - Oversight of the U.S. Department of Justice

Statement

SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R-IA): Thank you. I'm glad to be back again with you. Maybe you aren't glad that I'm back here -- (chuckles) -- but I wanted to leave our mark up of the stimulus package to come over here and finish some more questioning.

As you know, in the 1990s, whistleblowers exposed major problems with the FBI crime lab. Doctor Frederic Whitehurst, who testified before you when you were a judge in New York, raised concerns about the lack of expertise in the FBI crime labs. In response, the former attorney general recruited five outside forensic experts to carefully review the work of the crime lab and all of Dr. Whitehurst's concerns and to make recommendations. One of the changes was to ensure that the FBI placed scientists in charge of the lab. In other words, the FBI put people with expertise in leadership positions.

Now, there's another FBI whistleblower named Bassem Youssef, who is prepared to testify about major problems with the FBI's counterterrorism operations. The FBI has taken the position that neither Arabic skills nor expertise with Middle Eastern counterterrorism are required for management positions in the counterterrorism programs. These sound too much like the days when the FBI didn't think it needed a scientist to run the crime labs.

After your confirmation hearing, I asked you about these issues and whether you would consider appointing an independent panel of experts to give them serious consideration. In your written answers, which we just received, you said you were unfamiliar with the problem outlined by Youssef and that it would be among your highest priorities to familiarize yourself with the Bureau's counterterrorism efforts.

Special Agent Youssef, through his counsel, provided my office with a copy of a 10-page letter dated October the 11th, 2007, filed with your office detailing threats to our nation's security caused by the failure of the FBI to hire and promote subject matter experts within the FBI's Counterterrorism Division. The examples set forth in that letter, extremely troubling.

I'd like to have that letter included in the record, Mr. Chairman.

SEN LEAHY: Without objection.

SEN. GRASSLEY: What action has your office taken to investigate the issues and concerns raised by Mr. Youssef's October 11th, 2007 letter?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: As I understand it, the matter with Mr. Youssef is in litigation. And that being the case, I can't, at this point, get into --

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, can I ask you if you would plan to seek an independent review of Youssef's allegations about how the lack of expertise among the FBI managers is hindering its counterterrorism efforts? Why or why not?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: I think we ought to wait for the progress of that litigation, which raises that and other issues.

SEN. GRASSLEY: So we got somebody in the FBI who says our counterterrorism efforts are being weakened, and we're going to wait for the courts of the United States to make a decision while we're under threat of attack from terrorists every day, we're told.

And I believe that we are under a threat of attack every day.

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: We are, and the FBI has been improving its counterintelligence section and adding to its counterintelligence section wholly apart from Mr. Youssef's allegations. That's an ongoing process in which I'm actively involved and the director is actively involved.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Youssef is also a central figure and controversial over the so-called exigent letters issued by the FBI. These letters obtained phone records by falsely claiming an emergency and promising that a grand jury subpoena would be issued later. According to Youssef, he helped the FBI identify and fix the problems with these letters.

The FBI general counsel recently briefed committee staff and claimed that her office did not know of the letters, quote/unquote, "at the time." However, according to page 93 of the inspector general's report, a division of the general counsel's office did know about the exigent letters as early as 2004, long before the FBI stopped sending them.

We should not have to rely on misleading statements from FBI officials when there is evidence available that would clarify exactly how this mess happened. The committee requested all of the e-mails related to the exigent letters last year. DOJ promised them to us, but we have not received -- we have received only one small batch of heavily redacted documents. When are these documents coming? It has been almost a full year since they were asked for.

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: I will find out about the review of the documents. It was my understanding that following the IG report there were changes put in place in the oversight of that -- of the issuances of the letters, and that those oversights are being given a chance to work. Hopefully they are working. But the problem with lack of -- lack of an oversight mechanism.

SEN. GRASSLEY: In this week's State of the Union address, President Bush outlined the steps the administration has taken to address the ongoing challenge of illegal immigration. Specifically, the president spoke of increasing worksite enforcement, expanding the number -- number of agents at the Southwest border and the construction of a fence. As a follow-up to the remarks, is the Justice Department committed to actively pursuing cases against employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens? And do you see this as a priority within the Department of Justice?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: It is, we are, and I do.

SEN. GRASSLEY: In November, Senator Bond and I wrote to you about the disturbing case of former FBI agent Nada Prouty. She is a Lebanese national who recently pled guilty to immigration fraud and unauthorized access to information about cases involving fundraisers for terrorist organizations like Hezbollah.

In response to that letter, the FBI provided briefings on the case, where we learned that before hiring her, the FBI's background investigation failed to uncover the following information: one, Prouty had overstayed her student visa; two, Prouty engaged in a sham marriage in order to obtain citizenship; and three, Prouty's brother- in-law and former employer was a Hezbollah supporter. According to the FBI, they missed all of this because they assumed she was checked out before getting her U.S. citizenship.

I was pleased to learn that in response to this incident, the FBI will now be reexamining the background of all of its agents originally from foreign countries. Can you explain a little more about this effort? For example, how many agents' backgrounds will have to be reviewed, and how long will it take? Will agents who were originally citizens of certain high-risk countries be targeted for scrutiny? And will all non-active born -- non-native-born agents be reexamined?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: I can't tell you how many agents and whether it's going to involve a reexamination of all non-native-born agents. That said, I believe it was more than simply reliance on Prouty having become a citizen. But there are additional safeguards that I understand are being reviewed and contemplated and put in place.

SEN. GRASSLEY: The inspector general's report -- recent report on its recommendations following the Robert Hanssen spy case said that the FBI resisted dedicating a special unit exclusively to internal security. The FBI finally agreed to implement this inspector general's recommendation only recently, years after the Hanssen case. If the FBI had a unit focused exclusively on internal security, then perhaps Prouty could have been caught sooner. How long will it be before this dedicated unit is actually up and running? And will the new unit be involved in the project to re-check the backgrounds of foreign-born FBI agents?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: It's my understanding the FBI does internal security on an ongoing basis. And -

SEN. GRASSLEY: Would you start over again, please?

ATTY GEN. MUKASEY: Sorry. It was my understanding that the FBI does internal security on an ongoing basis. And I will discuss that with the director.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. LEAHY: Thank you, Senator Grassley. I know this is an area where you've had a great deal of interest and you've followed up on these type of questions whether it's a Democratic or Republican administration, and I appreciate the fact you show that kind of concern.

SEN. GRASSLEY: I hope that helps my credibility.

Source