Hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee - One Year Later: Have TSA Airport Security Checkpoints Improved?

Interview

Hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee - One Year Later: Have TSA Airport Security Checkpoints Improved?

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REP. DARRELL ISSA (R-CA): Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this bipartisan hearing. I think it's doing us a lot of good to at least make sure the American public understands the need for ongoing improvement.

I think maybe the administrator -- maybe the kindest way to start this off is with something that will be good for the public.

Had this shown to you earlier and it's entitled, "Deluxe 16-piece Carry-on Kit," and for the record, if someone goes and buys one of these kits, where they can get little teeny amounts of what they need to travel that may not otherwise be available or may cost a lot of money to buy, are they allowed to use that?

MR. HAWLEY: Pretty much yes, assuming it's got a zip-top bag under there, which I believe it does.

REP. ISSA: Right, but the individual bottles themselves --

MR. HAWLEY: Yes, sir.

REP. ISSA: Okay. And I would hope that after today's hearing, universally TSA people who don't get it, who routinely, I have seen -- because I travel every single week twice a week -- I've seen them turn people away with, "Oh, there's no marking on that." They do not seem to understand that while these are being sold and while in many cases the only way -- and I don't want to sound sexist, but for a woman to have a multitude of different small items that may make up makeup needs and carry it on, they need to have that, particularly if you look at what's often in a purse.

So I see a lot of grinning by the men and women behind you, but I think it's important that when we say we care about commerce and we care about the traveler that there be a uniform understanding that this doesn't have to be the answer, which is everything I took from the last hotel I stayed in. It was two days' worth. I didn't take any more than my share.

But I think it is important because my line of questioning will not be on security. And it won't be on security because, one, I spent time in the military in EOD and I'm going to predict that 20 years from now you're still going to be playing cat and mouse. We were playing cat and mouse with the (SDS ?) in the 1970s. I don't think it's going to change.

Having said that, I want to ask you a question, which is, given that we continue to fund you at the levels you request, and that you continue to ask for bucks for Buck Rogers-type innovation, do you believe that you will reasonably be able to stay ahead of these ever- moving and improving target characteristics?

MR. HAWLEY: I do, but it won't be through Buck Rogers technology. I think we have to have technology that is reliable, that is sophisticated, that is affordable, but getting on the cutting edge of technology, I think, is expensive, not reliable, and can usually be engineered around. So we'll always have the human factor.

And I take your point about, you know, generational conflict and that this is a long-term thing, and when we do something, they are going to react to get around it. And we've -- therefore, for our technology purchases, you'll see fewer purchases of those big trace portals and more purchases of portable liquid explosive detectors, portable explosive detectors that we are in fact using even with some of our foreign partners.

So the flexible mix of technology and a business process where our officers and all of our folks, including federal air marshals, can continue to adapt and not give the enemy a stationary target -- I think that is the critical thing and I don't think it's going to -- we're not going to have a silver bullet.

REP. ISSA: Okay. Because you kind of led into this, you're going to be a labor-intensive industry for a while, for the foreseeable future, that technology per se is not going to eliminate the need for the men and women in uniform who handle the luggage, look through it, or who, out of uniform, plainclothes, who observe after you go through the primary checkpoint.

Then, can I ask for something very straightforward in this hearing? Because this is the Government Oversight and Reform. I travel throughout Europe and the Middle East, but usually go through Europe commercially on my way to the Middle East. For some reason, the Europeans have figured out that to have a TSA-equivalent person shuttling little gray trays back and forth is a huge waste of a trained individual.

I travel through Dulles. I travel through San Diego, Sacramento, a number of other airports. They all vary, but none of them reached level of moving the trays from where they get left off back to the other without human intervention, meaning that in every one of your airports, you've got somebody like the uniformed person behind you who is doing a task that requires absolutely no training, absolutely no expertise, for which we are paying for training and expertise.

And I would hope that you would commit to us to make the dollars available to automate the trays or the equivalent so that we not waste valuable government employees on something that, quite frankly, anybody can do and no one should have to do in this automated day and age.

MR. HAWLEY: Yes, that's the perfect use of technology, to make it more efficient. Totally agree.

REP. ISSA: Thank you.

I'll end on that high note, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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