Hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee - Democracy, Authoritarianism and Terrorism in Contemporary Pakistan

Interview

Hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee - Democracy, Authoritarianism and Terrorism in Contemporary Pakistan

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REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ambassador for being here.

I mean, obviously our primary policy goal in the Pakistan region at this point is to help them -- and as much as we can, ourselves -- contain al Qaeda and the Taliban, and there are many, many impediments to getting there. I think having broader support of the Pakistani people for their government certainly would be one, and sort of underlines Musharraf's authority.

And I think -- well, the question I have is to get your opinion on whether or not, you know, in any way that we can -- and I'm sympathetic to the notion that we have a limited ability to simply force Musharraf or anybody in Pakistan to do whatever we want. I think that's, you know, one of our approaches.

Some of the criticism of Pakistan policy has focused on that, and I think that's a mistake because one of the things that makes Pakistan very angry at us is the notion that, you know, they are our puppet to do our will. When I visited Pakistan, more than once they made the point that, you know, "Don't forget, we represent Pakistan;" you know, "your interests are nice, but they're not ours, and you guys seem to forget that with great frequency and try to jam it down our throat." And that creates less cooperation, not more.

So all the talk about cutting off aid, doing all these other things to force them -- I mean, I understand the desire, but the result is it pushes many Pakistanis further away from us.

But the question is, if there was greater democracy in Pakistan, if there was greater freedom, you know we draw this comparison. You can push democracy in some places and wind up in a worse situation. Certainly the feeling is that's what happened in Palestine. But here, it seems like if there was greater democracy, you would have that, you know, Pakistani middle class more supportive of their government, which would strengthen their hand to deal with those that are sympathetic to the Taliban.

Do you agree with that, as opposed to the notion of, we've just got to back Musharraf and make him as strong as possible, regardless of the impact on the democratic issues?

MR. NEGROPONTE: I think I would agree with the proposition that some understanding between the Pakistani military and civic society about how to go forward at an electoral political process moving towards greater democracy, these would be helpful in dealing with the different challenges that Pakistan faces, including extremism. I think it would be a positive thing.

REP. A. SMITH: It strikes me that it ought to be our policy. And it also strikes me that we really need to back off a little bit on all of the threats and all of the -- and I'm not saying you. I'm talking about us, especially --

MR. NEGROPONTE: Back off of what?

REP. A. SMITH: Of all of the threats -- you know, don't do this. We're going to cut off your money. We gave you $10 billion in the last five years. What have we got for it?

I mean, I understand the sentiment where that is coming from. But somewhere from our government has to be the statement of what you said earlier in an answer to Ms. Watson's question. We're with the Pakistani people and we have a long-term commitment to that region.

MR. NEGROPONTE: Right.

REP. A. SMITH: We understand that you need our help, and we're not just going to yank it on a whim or when we feel like it. Because in Pakistan, they very much believe that we were simply using them and we'll discard them again at a moment's notice. That undermines the ability to get the broad-based support within Pakistan to take on the Taliban. Because their answer is, hey, the Taliban is going to be here forever; you guys, you kind of come and go. So we need to make that longer-term commitment, but I think part of that has to be a commitment to all of the Pakistani people, and not just to Musharraf, in terms of how we approach that.

Last question: The -- as I understand it, most of the people in Pakistan don't vote. It's actually a relatively small percentage of the -- well, 33 percent to 40 percent, and there's a lot of other folks who don't. How do you judge how they view what's going on with Musharraf? You have the rioting warriors if you will and the middle class, who are upset about that. And then you have the vast majority of Pakistanis who are, you know, more in poverty. How are they viewing the situation, both in terms of their feelings about Musharraf and their sympathies for al Qaeda and the Taliban?

MR. NEGROPONTE: I don't -- I'm not certain. But --

REP. A. SMITH: I'm clear on that point. (Laughter) -- your opinion.

MR. NEGROPONTE: (Laughs.) I really am not.

I put some polling data in my statement. I do think that most Pakistanis are moderate, and they don't favor extremism. I suspect that once you get out of the more urbanized areas that people are probably not as intensely interested in politics as they might be in the capital and in the major cities, and that political activity of that kind -- legislation, elections and so forth -- is probably of limited interest to many average Pakistanis.

REP. A. SMITH: Probably most, I would guess.

MR. NEGROPONTE: You know, I just -- I wouldn't know what number to attach to that, but I think most people want to get on with their lives. They want to live a better life. And --

REP. A. SMITH: That's where the economic piece comes in, where our support can't.

MR. NEGROPONTE: That's where the economic -- right, and that's where stability comes in too.

REP. A. SMITH: Right.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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