Hearing of the Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works - Lead and Children's Health

Interview

Hearing of the Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works - Lead and Children's Health

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SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thank you, Senator Boxer, and thank you for holding this important hearing. I've been dealing with this all summer on the Commerce Committee, and I think if anyone has noted, it's been hard to open a paper or to watch TV without hearing about another toy recall because of lead. And as a former prosecutor and a mother, I'm appalled by the number of toys -- I think it's 20 million now -- that have been recalled, and it started with Thomas the Train set and SpongeBob SquarePants. My 12-year-old daughter, Madame Chairwoman, was very embarrassed I was working on this because the toys at issue were SpongeBob SquarePants, but when it got to Barbie, she came into the kitchen and said, "Mom, this is getting serious."

One of the first products that was recalled this summer was this Thomas the Train set that I have here. And one little interesting fact that I don't know if everyone knows: the RC2 Corporation -- these came from China -- apologized to their customers, and to try to prompt them to get more trains they actually gave them bonus gifts for their troubles, and the bonus gift backfired in a big way. They then had to recall the bonus gifts after that because they realized that those also had lead in the paint. And this actual is a toy that Tamara Fucile, my great staff person on this, her child bit on this toy, and it has now been recalled.

We have watched this process unfold over the summer, and I think it's given American consumers a sense of why we do need good government and why we do need regulation. Senator Durbin and I have been working together to make sure that the Consumer Product Safety Commission has the money it needs. And then on the Commerce Committee, along with Senator Pryor and Senator Nelson, we've been working toward getting some new standards in place for lead in toys and other products.

Right now how it works -- and I think people would be surprised to know this -- there really isn't a set federal standard. A lot of the states have standards; it's a voluntary guideline, and there's a lot of hoops that the Consumer Product Safety Commission has to go through to actually recall toys or other items.

And so what we're trying to do, instead of setting up another rule making, which would take months, is actually put a standard in place. We have drafted a bill suggesting a .04 parts per million with a lower standard for jewelry, like they have in California, a .02.

I will say that the retailers, especially my hometown company of Target, and others like Toys R Us, have been very helpful and supportive of these efforts. I think they realize that we need to have a stronger Consumer Product Safety Commission and that also we need to have some better rules in place.

This really hit home for us in Minnesota when a little 4-year-old boy swallowed a lead charm. He didn't buy it; he was given it along with a pair of tennis shoes as a free gift. He swallowed that charm and he didn't die from choking on it or some kind of other problem with his -- with the air; he died when the lead seeped into his bloodstream over a period of days. And it crept into his bloodstream, he died, the charm was later tested and it tested at 99 percent lead, and it was made in China.

So if that isn't enough to make people realize that we need to change the way we're doing business, I don't know what is.

I think it's time to act. And while we will continue to focus, on the Commerce Committee, on the Consumer Product Safety Commission, as we know in this committee, the Consumer Product Safety Commission cannot and should not do this alone. It doesn't have the resources or the statutory authority, and I'm pleased that we are taking steps to modernize the commission. Right now there's one guy who checks toys and he sits in the back of a room.

What's his name?

Bob -- Bob the toy guy. And he's retiring at the end of the year.

So we need to improve the CPSC, but I will tell you that the EPA must be a partner here. With a budget more than 10 times the size of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and with greater authority to gather information, the EPA is uniquely positioned to support the Consumer Product Safety Commission's efforts to get lead out of stores and get lead off of our shores.

I'm pleased that you're holding this hearing today, Madame Chair, thank you very much. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.

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SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Madame Chairwoman.

In your testimony, you talked about how you've been working with -- in close cooperation, your written testimony -- with the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I was speaking earlier in my opening statement about how important it is to beef up that organization.

And I wanted to know beyond notifying companies of their statutory obligations under the Toxic Substance Control Act, what specific actions has the EPA taken to coordinate with the CPSC in light of this crisis we're seeing with lead in toys?

MR. GULLIFORD: Thank you, Senator, for your question.

Let me mention two other very specific things that we did. We did send a letter to CPSC expressing our concern for lead in toys; our concern that that is, again, a very unfortunate but pervasive opportunity or exposure pathway for children to be exposed.

And secondly then we also have initiated rule making at EPA -- and we did this in discussion with and notified CPSC about that -- that will require any companies with studies, existing health and safety studies, on lead in children's products -- not just toys but all products -- to make that data available to us, so there would be a requirement for that. Any failure to do so then would be subject to an enforcement action on our part.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: And when do you expect to deliberate on that rule?

MR. GULLIFORD: That rule -- we project to have that rule about a year from now.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: And when do you think you can have it done?

MR. GULLIFORD: Fall -- late fall -- of '08.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: You know, I talked about Bob the toy guy in the back room in the CPSC.

Are there other ways that the EPA, when you have a budget 10 times bigger than the CPSC, can assist them in working with them in testing these products and trying to find a way to make this work?

MR. GULLIFORD: One of the things that we try not to do is duplicate the actions or the authorities of other agencies. So CPSC has worked on the issue of toy imports -- children's products that are imported. We're really focusing on the lead in homes.

Also in other programs of EPA such as the Superfund program, as you heard Senator Bond refer to, we have a number of cleanups of areas where again children are exposed by lead that is in their yards.

So we are working in the areas that are clearly within our identified authorities. We want to be supportive of the other agencies, and we do that by, again, exchanging information as we become aware of it related to health issues. But again, we do not try and duplicate their functions.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: To get into that area that you have been focusing on and that is the questions that Senator Boxer was asking you about the EPA regulation, the status of it, to protect children and others, HUD issued their rule for assisted housing, I think it was back in 1998 and it took effect in 2001. And I think people had expected that the EPA would quickly follow suit right after this was issued in 1998.

What took so long? It's been 11 years after Congress required that the rule be passed and there's still not a final -- and I know she asked you about the time, but I just don't understand why it could take so long when HUD was able to do this back in '98. And I think it's something like 1.1 million kids could be protected who are potentially exposed to lead.

MR. GULLIFORD: Senator, I came to this position in July of last year with a commitment to this committee to implement -- to finalize and complete this rule, and I'm committed to do that.

I also come with a strong concern for the safety of children with respect to lead because of my experience in the region where we had, as the senator indicated, a lead smelter. We have the largest cleanup Superfund site from the actions of a past and historic smelter.

So my commitment is to what I --

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: I know, but do you know why? In your current position, have you heard why it took so long when HUD was able to do it? We're just trying to make it better going forward, and I'm new at this but I come in and I find out that it takes this many years to get something done; it doesn't make any sense to me.

MR. GULLIFORD: I can speak to my actions and my commitment to completing the rule. I am not aware of the history.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Okay.

The other thing I wanted to ask about was the standard that you have because we're working on the Commerce Committee -- as we speak, in the next two weeks we'd like to get the bill done here, and we're working to get a lead standard in there for these toys.

And as Senator Boxer mentioned, the voluntary standard right now -- and it's not a strict standard, but it's .06, 600 parts per million -- a lot of states have that but we don't have any set standard on the federal level, and so we were looking at this 400 parts per million. A part of that was the standard that you used for soil in children's play areas.

And do you know what this standard is based on, the 400 parts per million?

MR. GULLIFORD: Yes. That's not a hard-and-fast standard, but it is a cleanup standard that is used -- it's a cleanup guideline.

Actually in cases where lead cleanups of soil are done, an effort is made to -- while that may be a working point to take off from, an effort is made to determine the bioavailability of lead that may be in those soils which may require a more strict cleanup standard or a less strict cleanup standard.

But the goal is develop a cleanup threshold that clearly is protective for children.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: And does the EPA use the same technology as the CPSC to test for this lead?

It's not a trick question. I don't know the answer. I'm just trying to figure it out as we go forward here.

MR. GULLIFORD: I don't know the answer to that. I know that we have equipment that measures the existence of lead in soils, and contractors use that equipment in the field regularly.

The actual -- lead is actually then collected for analysis to determine the bioavailability of it. And there is a test, I believe it's -- we always referred to it in the field as the pig test because somehow there's some exposure to animal tests. I apologize for that. But it is designed to determine the bioavailability of that lead, and we can then transfer that to -- again, the potential for children to be exposed and to ingest that lead.

So there are a number of tests with respect to lead that are important to the health industry. They're also important even just to the recognition. I'm sorry.

SEN. BOXER: I'm so sorry to interrupt. We found out we have a vote that's starting at around noon so we're going to have to move --

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Okay, that's fine.

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