Panel II of a Hearing of the Africa and Global Health Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committee - Ethiopia Democracy and Human Rights
Statement
Panel II of a Hearing of the Africa and Global Health Subcommittee of the House Foreign Affairs Committee - Ethiopia Democracy and Human Rights
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REP. SMITH: Thank you very much, Madame Chair.
Let me just thank this very distinguished panel for providing the very good commentary, incisive commentary. It helps this committee enormously to have your very reasoned thoughts so I want to thank you on behalf of all of us. It really does help us to know what is really going on on the ground.
And, Dr. Nega, thank you for your persistence -- two political prisoners on one panel, that's quite an important statement, I think, upon the part of this subcommittee how much we are in solidarity with those who are being falsely and wrongly incarcerated and mistreated by the Meles government.
Now, I asked Secretary Jendayi Frazer earlier in the hearing how many political prisoners, how many detainees does the U.S. government estimate the Meles government continues to hold. And I wondered if any of you have any estimate, a range, a precise number perhaps -- I know that's very hard to come by -- that you might provide to the subcommittee so we have a sense as to what the situation is on the ground.
Would anybody -- yes?
MS. ABDULKADIR: Yeah. Before I try to put the figures I have, I would like to explain what's going on during the negotiation about our release -- you know, during our release, elders told us that there is a secured agreement on the side of the government to release all political prisoners who are charged and jailed and in relation to the election 2005.
We reached an agreement based on the spirit of the (thing ?) but after we get released that's not happening, you know. Only 71 members, maybe the leaders I could say, are released but the others we are trying to get that promise implemented but I don't think they are having a good gesture from the side of government. But based on our information we have about 100 political prisoners who are charged with crimes in relation to the 2005 election and CUDP party. Besides us I have already mentioned in my presentation, there are also civil society leaders who are jailed in -- (inaudible) --. We believe also the case in the regions could be similar. We are having some investigations but we didn't get the exact figure for the timing.
Thank you.
MR. NEGA: I -- if I'm allowed I want to comment on the question that you asked earlier to Dr. Pham in relation to this -- the ability to which pressure on governments work. I mean, one of the most fascinating things that we hear always from African governments is this protestation that pressures don't work. They do work -- in fact more than anything else, even more than quiet diplomacy. Serious, coordinated, and well targeted pressures do work.
One of the problems of putting sufficient pressure on Ethiopian government during, you know, the massacre of hundreds of people in 2005 was the lack of coordination between the United States and other supporters of the Ethiopian government. In fact, the EU was very adamant in taking strong position to punish the Ethiopian government for what was done. It was the U.S. government that was prohibiting or at least, you know, allowing more coordinated pressure which gave room for the Ethiopian government to maneuver its way out of the problem.
You know, if pressures don't work, why would the Ethiopia government pay, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire lobbyists to, you know, to influence this Congress. You know, I mean, protestations are something but we know as a matter of fact for countries such as Ethiopia, if the pressure is put to bear on reasonable grounds -- on grounds on issues of principle that the government itself claims to uphold.
I mean, all the question that the Ethiopian government has asked to is to implement its constitution and that's what it refuses to. And I think pressure to do that especially if it is going to help avoid a looming crisis which I believe there is a strong crisis that is -- there is a gathering storm in Ethiopia, I mean, if all these small conflicts in the various regions, you know, build up, they will and, you know, so far the government's belligerence continues, they will. There's no other way then -- the danger for the country and the region is really quite serious.
But the other issue, I think what one must consider as for Congress is when the issue of pressure is applied -- so you put pressure not only because you would see an immediate effect on it, it's also because you don't want to be part of that fall. I mean, by supporting the Ethiopian government and by supporting its brutality in any form, you would be, to a certain degree, you know, by, you know, if not by commission, by omission, part of that problem. I mean, we have enough in our plates to fight a dictatorship that we think is in its -- not only in the rest of Ethiopia, but in its benefit to resolve peacefully and through negotiations.
Not to do that would put the United States in a larger difficulty as time passes. But it becomes very difficult for us who are in the democracy movement to also fight the United States when you hear statements that we're hearing from, you know. I mean I was absolutely flabbergasted when the U.S. representative came to Kaliti and asked me to abrogate my position as mayor in order to provide stability to the Ethiopian government. I mean, you know, when you have that kind of statement coming from the United States government then you have a very, very serious difficulty in --
REP. WOOLSEY: Thank you, Doctor. I took up half of your time with -- taken -- answering me, so go ahead, Congressman.
REP. SMITH: Thank you very much, Madame Chair.
Let me ask you, if you can, Secretary Frazer said that the release of the 71 leaders during the summer significantly enhanced dialogue and reconciliation in Ethiopia -- your sense of whether that's an understatement, overstatement or about right?
MR. : Yeah.
REP. SMITH: She also said that the U.S. has seen allegations of human rights abuse conducted by all parties, this is including reports of burned villages and population displacements. And I wonder, you know, very often in a situation -- obviously governments and we deal government to government and groups that we either like or dislike or are neutral on -- yes, we'll raise issues about them. But we deal with governments, that's with -- to whom we provide foreign aid, that's with whom we have a relationship, diplomatic and otherwise.
And I'm wondering if that kind of statement kind of says, well, everybody's wrong, therefore, you know, we're not going to engage ourselves in one way or the other except to say we support human rights abuse investigation and so on and so forth.
I think it kind of like takes some of the pressure off the Meles government, at least that's the sense I got, but the reconciliation issue whether or not the release of the 71, unless you want to speak to that, Doctor, because you are one of them.
And then if you could also speak, Ms. Zarifi, about the issue you and your recommendations talk about how we need to fully ensure that the provisions of the Leahy Law are followed up on. I, if you recall, asked questions regarding whether or not U.S. training, and whether or not U.S. support of any kind is any way complicit in any of these atrocities. I have always been concerned that we don't track people that we train. And if we do, I can't wait to see where and how because very often when I ask those questions I get redacted copies of who it is that we trained from our administration and that would include the Clinton administration as well.
So I wonder if you could speak to, are there any allegations of U.S. trained personnel committing atrocities I know that's very hard to come by -- they don't walk around with name plates on and we don't publish who it is, what colonels, lieutenants, captains or anyone else that we train, but are there allegations of that -- of U.S. complicity willingly or unwillingly in that kind of human rights abuse on the ground?
And again, I didn't get a clear picture from all of you about the issue of how many people are we talking about. If anyone has any evidence -- numbers, it would be very helpful. And maybe they're just hard to come by.
And on the demonstration killings, another very potent way of getting people to be compliant and obviously a gross human rights abuse as well as the rape that you spoke to earlier that Human Rights Watch has been able to document -- that is an atrocity again that, you know, is reminiscent of the ongoing problems in Darfur and every other place where genocide, as I think you pointed out so well. Most people forget genocide is in whole or in part, you don't have to completely obliterated a people but when you systematically in whole or in part -- and in part this certainly seems to be what we're talking about here -- it does raise the level.
And if you could, if you would, speak to the issue as to whether or not the U.N. Human Rights Council has looked at this genocide issue, whether or not an attempt has been made. And we also have a convention on genocide and a panel of experts empowered by the U.N. and the international community to look into those issues. Have they taken this up as well?
MS. ABDULKADIR: Thank you, Ranking Smith.
One of the things that I wanted also to mention when I was submitting my testimony -- it is in two parts -- the one I was reading as a paper and the 2007 Ogaden Human Rights Report which I have sent on Friday. In it, there are lists of names of people that have disappeared, that have been killed, that have been jailed, that have been kept incommunicado for a long time so there is -- there's definitely that.
The additional thing that I would like to highlight with regards to your previous question about the numbers is the Ogaden has been cut off from everybody for a while. So it has been really hard for us researching and sending people to risk their lives to talk to these people and document. So the numbers as thousands, when you talk to people on the ground in the Ogaden and they say to you, "Yes, few people have been released but we fear that the jails are being emptied so that they can be filled with Ogadenese. And the jails in the major cities in Ogaden like Qabridahare and Dhagahbur and Jigjiga and Fiiq are overcrowded and they're also creating further health risks because they're really substandard.
So with regard to numbers, they are the thousands. Whether we have had chance to really have anybody investigate this, we were really happy to see the recent U.S. fact finding mission -- United Nations fact finding mission. We are hoping that maybe the U.S. will also send another fact finding mission. What we are hearing in the Ogaden, we do support -- there are 70 pages on a yearly bases as a sort of like the scratch on the surface -- there is much more.
And here is a region that is 10 times the size of New Jersey that has been isolated from the international community and from recently the -- (inaudible) -- frontier. So the Meles regime as well as previous regimes have really been successful at isolating this group of -- territory and really cutting off. So we have been suffering in isolation and it's recent that we're welcoming that it being at least noticed. And we are here today. So the numbers are, sir, in the thousands. And we need to do more to really follow up as to what it is that is taking place in terms of crimes against humanity and in terms of genocide because there are -- and they can be corroborated. I had no idea what the human rights speaker was going to say today when I did my research but there seems to be so much similarities and corroborated evidence here that is documented. There is human rights violation; there is war against -- crimes against humanity and there is definitely elements of genocide that needs to be pursued further.
Thank you, sir.
REP. SMITH: Thank you.
If I may, we have come across allegations that U.S.-trained troops and certainly equipment may be involved but certainly the perception of that link is quite high. We share your frustration with the failures of the Department of Defense and the State Department to always provide information adequate to implement the Leahy Law. We've had this problem in Indonesia, most recently, but we continue.
But this is something that we believe that even within the perameters of current U.S. policy the State Department can do a much better job of pressing the Ethiopian government to assure this Congress that in fact United States military training and equipment are not being used to perpetrate the very serious crimes -- war crimes that we've seen.
In terms of the number of prisoners, I actually, thanks to the marvels of modern technology, used my blackberry to ask my colleagues to see how many they were. By and large, we have heard the same thing. It's important to point out that in addition to those who are detained as mainstream opposition -- there are hundreds, mostly of young men who are detained on very flimsy accusations of being members of the OLF or the ONLF or other members. But as you've pointed out it's impossible for us to know exactly what the numbers are.
Let me quickly come back to the issue of essentially parity between the comp ability of the different sides. Human Rights Watch has absolutely documented violations by the ONLF including extrajudicial murder and execution, of burning villages and of endangering civilians. There is no question that the ONLF is -- does not operate with clean hands. However, as you pointed out it, it is the Ethiopian government that is by and large the beneficiary of the United States largesse. It is the government there and it is to that extent holds itself as international sovereign and has obligations of its own.
But again, to look at it from a simply practical point of view, it is very difficult for us to successfully engage with you to criticize them and to try to get them to change when abuses by the Ethiopian defense forces are so rampant and seem to be so widely accepted by the United States.
It is a false view apparently posited by the Ethiopian government and accepted by the United States that a counterinsurgency campaign and respect for human rights are mutually exclusive. It is our experience around the world that a solid human rights record is absolutely part of a successful counterinsurgency campaign and we would like to see the Ethiopian government stand by its obligation so we can make sure that we can get the other parties also to follow through.
Thank you.
MR. NEGA: Two issues -- the first one relates to the number of prisoners. I understand how frustrated it must be, Congressman, but you must understand we are living in a country where we don't even know our war date. I mean, we're living in a country where since the Ethiopian army fought the Eritreans, we don't know how many of our soldiers have died. In Somalia, I mean, according to official government sources there is no one who has died. I mean, it is a Teflon army that we have.
REP. SMITH: Gentleman would yield. The bill will be coming up in about 10 minutes so I have to go to the floor to manage it on the Republican side. But I will read what you say and I do appreciate all of you.
And I thank the gentlelady for her indulgence in the extra time.
MR. NEGA: Sure.
So it is a very frustrating exercise to find out exactly how many people are in prison. It is the nature of the secrecy of government.
But the more important issue is the issue of whether there is an ongoing dialogue between the opposition and the government as the secretary seems to allude in her presentation. I was sitting in the back and I was completely flabbergasted when I heard that statement because as far as we know, there is no dialogue whatsoever between the Ethiopian government and the opposition. In fact the Ethiopian government even in the preliminary argument, understanding that we had with elders which required some kind of beginning of dialogue was completely reneged before we even got out of prison. I mean, the government simply refused to consider that there was any agreement for dialogue. In fact that's what's scary -- I mean the idea that the government believes it can continue with this belligerent attitude while the conflict in the various regions is growing -- that is the danger that is looming in Ethiopia. That's why the United States, rather than, you know, do this ostrich-like evasion, really engage the Ethiopian government to sit down and dialogue with opposition because the opposition is interested.
The opposition is ready for a credible, serious discussion that includes the government. So apparently there is nothing.
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