Hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - Blackwater USA; Private Security Contracting in Iraq & Afghanistan

Interview

Hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - Blackwater USA; Private Security Contracting in Iraq & Afghanistan

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REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D-IL): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I really appreciate you allowing me to participate in this hearing, and I thank the committee for their indulgence.

I wanted to let everyone know that I'm shortly going to be introducing legislation to carefully phase out the use of private security contractors, for-profit companies that carry out sensitive missions that have repeatedly and dramatically affected our mission.

I want to recognize the mother of Jerry Zovko, who is here today. Jerry was an Army Ranger before becoming a Blackwater employee. He died in Fallujah in an infamous mission fraught with mistakes on the part of his Blackwater supervisors. That was over three and a half years ago and led to the battle of Fallujah, during which many of our U.S. forces lost their lives.

As Mr. Davis, the ranking member, said, we need a conversation in this Congress about that, and I'm hoping that my legislation will provide that.

Mr. Prince, in your testimony, you stated Blackwater personnel supporting our country's overseas missions are all military and law enforcement veterans. You did not state that they were all American military and law enforcement veterans. Is it true that Blackwater hires foreign security personnel?

MR. PRINCE: One of your colleagues previously asked that question. Yes, some of the camp guards, gate guards, static locations, are indeed third-country national soldiers.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: And in 2004, Gary Jackson, the president of Blackwater USA, admitted that your company had hired former commandos from Chile to work in Iraq, many of which served under General Augusto Pinochet, the former dictator of Chile. As you must know, his forces perpetrated widespread human rights abuses, including torture and murder of over 3,000 people.

Did Blackwater or any of its affiliated companies at that time use -- at any time use any Chilean contractors with ties to Pinochet?

MR. PRINCE: Well, I can say Mr. Jackson did not admit to hiring some commandos.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: (Inaudible.)

MR. PRINCE: Yes, we did hire some Chileans. Any foreign national soldier that works for us now for the State Department have to have -- it's called a high public-trust clearance.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay, let me ask --

MR. PRINCE: It's basically a security clearance for a third- country national soldier where you take their name. It goes back through the U.S. embassy in that country and their name is run, kind of like a national agency check here, which is what someone does for a security clearance.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay, I understand that one of your --

MR. PRINCE: That way we can ensure that they have no criminal record, ma'am.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: I understand that one of your business associates, Jose Miguel Pizzaro, was indicted in Chile for his role in supplying commandos to serve Blackwater. Is that correct?

MR. PRINCE: He was not an associate. He might have been a vendor to us.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: In your written statement today, you state that Blackwater mandates that its security professionals have a security clearance of at least the secret level. Did any Chilean contractors who work for Blackwater ever get a security clearance?

MR. PRINCE: I believe what I said is for the WPPS contract, the Americans working on that that are doing the PSD mission are required a secret clearance.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Did any Chilean contractors get a security clearance?

MR. PRINCE: I don't know, ma'am.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: You know, so if yes, they were provided with classified information; if no, then it's not true that all Blackwater personnel in Iraq have security clearances. On your website -- I don't know if it's still there; a recent one -- there was a jobs fair advertised in Bucharest. And we've heard allegations that Blackwater recruited Serbians and former Yugoslavs with combat experience from the Balkan wars, some linked to atrocities committed in Croatia and Kosovo and Bosnia and associates of Milosevic. I'm wondering if you could talk to me about that for a minute.

MR. PRINCE: To my knowledge, we've never employed anyone out of those countries.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Would you know?

MR. PRINCE: There are some Romanians that were on a contract that we took over from a previous vendor, competitor. But we phased them out, and we use guys out of Latin America now.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Would you know if people have been associated with Pinochet or Milosevic before you hire them? Is this part of your inquiry?

MR. PRINCE: Again, for the State Department, for the static guards that we utilized third-country national soldiers, a high public-trust clearance is required --

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: I heard you --

MR. PRINCE: -- where their name, their background, their address, their date of birth, whatever information is available on them, is run back through the equivalent country that they're from; a national agency check to ensure that they don't have any criminal record, human rights abuses or any other bad marks against their name.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay. Well we should check into that process. But let me ask a question. You said that you as a company would not work overseas in any way that's not associated with -- that the United States does not approve. However, Chile has made a decision not to participate as part of a coalition member in this war. They won't send any troops. Do you have any problems about hiring people out of Chile to participate actively in this war?

MR. PRINCE: We don't hire anybody from Chile right now, to my knowledge.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Have you ever?

MR. PRINCE: I previously -- just said that we had previously, yes.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: And so the answer is you don't have any qualms about doing that, based on the fact that Chile has made a public policy decision not to participate.

MR. PRINCE: I believe the persons of that country have a free right to contract. I'll give you an example. The Philippines doesn't allow their personnel to go to Iraq, so we don't hire their people to go to Iraq.

REP. SCHAKOWSKY: Okay, but you do hire Chileans.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

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