Hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee - Blackwater USA's Iraq Mission

Interview

Hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee - Blackwater USA's Iraq Mission

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REP. STEPHEN F. LYNCH (D-MA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank the panelists for their testimony.

Ambassador Satterfield, in the testimony you prepared for today's hearing, you wrote, quote, "In those rare instances when security contractors must use force, management officials at the embassy conduct a thorough review to ensure the proper procedures were followed." I'd like to ask you about the investigation conducted by the State Department in a couple of incidents we've looked at. I might only get through one.

"During our investigation, we found that on June 25th, 2005, a Blackwater operator shot and killed an innocent Iraqi bystander in al- Hillah.

According to a State Department e-mail, Blackwater personnel failed to report the shooting, they covered it up, and, subsequently, they were removed from al-Hillah. Our State Department then, in their e-mail, asked Blackwater to pay $5,000 in compensation, but we have no information showing that the State Department ever conducted an investigation of that incident in al-Hillah.

Can you tell me was there an investigation ever conducted?

MR. GRIFFIN: Congressman, if you will, we will get back to you with the full details of that incident and the investigatory follow- up.

REP. LYNCH: You're kidding me. This is a June 25, 2005 case.

MR. GRIFFIN: Congressman, we will respond in detail on the questions you have posed.

REP. LYNCH: But sir, you were the deputy chief of mission at the time. I mean, you don't recall this?

MR. GRIFFIN: Congressman, I do not recall in the fashion necessary to respond to your question in the detail it deserves.

REP. LYNCH: I'm just asking if there was an investigation. That's not, you know -- okay, you got the shooting. You were there. Do you remember if there was an investigation? That's not heavy on detail.

MR. GRIFFIN: Again, Congressman, I would prefer to respond to you in writing on this.

REP. LYNCH: Are you refusing to answer -- is that -- ?

MR. GRIFFIN: No, Congressman, I want to give you a full answer. I'm not able to do that at this time.

REP. ISSA I'm just looking for a yes or no -- was there an investigation? Yes. There wasn't an investigation. No.

MR. GRIFFIN: I am not able to confirm the details of what happened following that incident --

REP. LYNCH: I'm not looking for details. I'm just looking for the fact of an investigation -- did it occur or it didn't occur.

MR. GRIFFIN: Congressman, I will have to check on that for you.

REP. LYNCH: So you don't know -- or you don't remember if there was an investigation.

MR. GRIFFIN: I cannot recall.

REP. LYNCH: Okay.

REP. WAXMAN: Will the gentleman yield to me?

REP. LYNCH: I will yield to the chairman.

REP. WAXMAN: Well, the committee asked for investigative reports and other documents relating to incidents involving allegations of Blackwater's misconduct, which would presumably include shooting civilians and seeking to cover it up. But virtually none were provided. The fact alone casts doubt on the sufficiency of any State Department investigations into these incidents.

We've had a better response from Blackwater than we have from the State Department on getting information. Does that bother you as much as it bothers me? Or do you have to find out whether you feel that way or not?

MR. GRIFFIN: No, Mr. Chairman.

REP. WAXMAN: I can't understand why we don't get responses from the State Department.

MR. GRIFFIN: We will be responding fully to all of the requests made both at this hearing and by the committee.

REP. WAXMAN: Well, some of these requests were made in March, some were requested in June. We're already holding the hearing. We've made requests so that we could have them before the hearing, not requests so that we can get them after the hearing.

Gentlemen --

REP. LYNCH: With all due respect, reclaiming my time, sir. Look, what I'm getting at is this. The State Department works hand- in-hand with Blackwater from my own experience in Iraq in a fairly coordinated team approach in protecting State Department personnel.

The closeness of that relationship between State Department personnel -- look, Blackwater's protecting these folks every single day in a very hostile environment. Friendships develop, reliance develops. It just -- it is just not possible because of the conflict that's created that the folks that are being protected -- State Department -- are going to do an objective job in reviewing the context -- I'm sorry, the conduct of the people who are protecting them.

And all I'm suggesting is this. Please, if you can answer this question. Don't you think it might provide a little separation and a more objective assessment of Blackwater's conduct if we had a special inspector general reviewing those incidents so that there'd be a little space there -- they wouldn't be reviewing the conduct of people that protect them everyday. If you'd take a crack at it and answer on that one. Thank you.

MR. GRIFFIN: Congressman, we do take the issue you raised very seriously about distance, transparency, objectivity of review of incidents as well objectivity of review of rules of operation in general, conduct in general. We're looking at that right now comprehensively.

But to go back to your original question, do we believe it is possible to objectively oversee the operation of security personnel in the field who protect us? Yes, we believe that is possible, it's executed everyday around the world, there are dismissals from service made everyday in response to incidents. This is done. But we are looking at the overall picture in Iraq right now. And we will consider what steps may be appropriate.

REP. LYNCH: Here's my problem with that answer. In the case in -- which I cited, there was a murder -- there was a killing of an innocent Iraqi. The RSO in question, I think, works for you, Ambassador Griffin. They were part of the review of the incident itself. So just from an objective standpoint, looking at the whole situation, there may have been some complicity or some involvement or, let's call it negligence even, on the part of that individual. And they are now reviewing the events in question.

So -- that's all. I'd just like some good, hard, objective review of the conduct here that would not be tainted by these relationships.

I yield back.

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