Hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee Subject: The Petraeus-Crocker Report on Progress in Iraq

Interview

HEARING OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
SUBJECT: THE PETRAEUS-CROCKER REPORT ON PROGRESS IN IRAQ

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SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for your extraordinary service, and thank you for your indulgence in being here today. I know both you, Mr. Ambassador, and General, are runners. I know, General, you are a marathon runner. And I want you to know that when you get to this point on the dais at a hearing, you're like on mile 23 in a marathon. So you're almost, almost there. We appreciate very much your patience.

And I also want to convey our appreciation to the men and women who serve under your command. Please let them know how grateful we are for their service. They are the best of the best.

What I would like to do, General, is -- Senator Graham asked a question about the morale of our troops over there which you answered. And by the way, your testimony here and report has probably been the most hyped event in this city in a long time. Many of us for months now have been saying that we're waiting to hear this report, and I will have to say that you have not disappointed. Your report has been full, it's been comprehensive, it's been factual, it has been objective and independent. You've not sugar-coated things. I think that we appreciate very much your willingness to give us an assessment, an honest assessment, of where things stand.

I want to home in on the whole question of the Iraqi troops. And General, what is the morale of the Iraqi troops? And are they taking ownership of this mission?

GEN. PETRAEUS: As I mentioned in the testimony, sir, there is an unevenness to it. The Iraqi forces range from extremely good, a high- end Iraqi special operations force brigade with a counterterrorist force commando battalion that is now multiplying, the national emergency response unit, the special tactics unit -- these forces are absolutely superb. They are in operation just about every night, if not more, and every day, and we are now positioning them around the country as well, including some in Basra.

There are other very special forces in just about each of the provinces. And again, as I mentioned, in many cases our own special forces teams work with them, and those are viewed very highly as well.

The army, by and large a professional force, national force, again, by and large, and performing credibly in a number of areas, in many cases literally by themselves already regardless of their operational readiness assessment. Again, that does not hold up the provincial Iraqi control process completely; it is a factor in it. But in many cases those forces are doing quite well.

And then it goes all the way down to, as you heard from General -- retired -- Jones' commission concerns about the sectarian tendencies of some elements still in the national police. And we continue to have concerns about several of the units there, again, have raised those to the prime minister. Those are -- and the minister of Interior really, who is grappling with this issue -- and working their way through the changeout of leaders, the retraining of a number of the organizations, and now even bringing in the Italian carabineri to train some of them.

At some point, there may be a point at which some of those units will have to be disestablished. That is certainly not where Iraq wants to go right now given just the sheer need for forces and for boots on the ground in a host of different areas, which is one reason why they're expanding so rapidly.

So again, it runs the gamut all the way. And there is a substantial effort ongoing to improve the leader development in the Iraqi security forces, to build the institutional structures that are frankly very hard to build of military academies, junior and senior staff colleges, war colleges.

And these may not sound all that exciting, but they are the types of institutional assets that have made our own Army and Marine Corps and other services the truly professional forces that they are. And it takes that level of investment. And that is ongoing. But again, it is something that does take time. It just doesn't spring up out of the desert floor with infrastructure, instructors and all the support for it. But that is ongoing.

SEN. THUNE: First time I met with you was in Iraq. I think back in like February of 2004, when you were leading the -- or 2005, I should say, when you were leading the training mission there. And I think you talked about the need to build leadership capacity within the Iraqi security forces.

GEN. PETRAEUS: That's right.

SEN. THUNE: But that -- are they -- to me, this doesn't work until that really happens. Is that happening? Is that --

GEN. PETRAEUS: It is happening. But frankly, some of this took a step backward, in some cases a substantial step backward, during the height of the sectarian violence, when certain units literally were taken over by sectarian interests and became part of the problem instead of part of the solution. And retrieving some of those units is still ongoing in some cases.

And again, of course, a big part of that had to be to reduce the level of sectarian violence and threats and so forth, so that these individuals didn't feel as if they had to side with one or the other but could be truly professional commissioned or noncommissioned officers.

And that is something, again, that Prime Minister Maliki is very much concerned about confronting and dealing with -- in fact, as I mentioned earlier, replacing wholesale the Facility Protection Security Force that guarded the Medical City.

So there are numerous challenges out there like that, but there are also just dozens and dozens of army battalions and special operations units in particular that are doing very credible work and very much going after the enemy. I mentioned the example of the unit in Mosul that killed the emir of Mosul with its own intelligence. In fact, it was actually the intelligence officer who we believe was the one that fired the shots that did kill this individual when there was a confrontation.

SEN. THUNE: Well, I know they -- that they prevented some attacks in Mosul. They have acted rapidly in restoring security in Karbala. They've had some successes.

And I guess my question is, if and when the Iraqi security forces are ready to take responsibility for the security of Iraq, if that happens before the political process has yielded a political solution, is our job done there?

GEN. PETRAEUS: Well, first of all, Senator, let me just --

SEN. THUNE: I mean, if they're not -- just aren't on the same track --

GEN. PETRAEUS: Sure. Let me just be clear that -- I mean, they have already taken over, again, in --

SEN. THUNE: Some areas.

GEN. PETRAEUS: -- in these provinces that have transitioned to provincial Iraqi control. There are no coalition forces in Maysan province, Muthanna, Karbala, Najaf and some others. Karbala will go to provincial Iraqi control in about a month. And then there are others where very much we -- certain areas where we still have to be in the lead.

Again, we can hand off as long as that local situation is sufficiently connected to Baghdad to enable us to do that. So -- and that's what we have done, again, in a number of cases, regardless of the fact that there may not be the agreement on the laws that we see as so important to ultimate national reconciliation.

But the fact is there's a Ministry of Defense, there's a Ministry of Interior, there are varying degrees of functionality in different areas, and certainly we're still having to help a great deal in the logistical arena especially, because that's just proven very difficult.

SEN. THUNE: And I understand that, and I know we've made headway and I know that there are areas that are now totally under the control of the Iraqi security forces and in some cases we're in the lead and they're supporting -- or they're in the lead and we're supporting. But I guess the bigger question is, is the mission complete when they can take over the fight, even if the political component -- if we haven't gotten some Western-style democracy imposed in terms of a political solution there, are we done? I mean, is that where -- can we say, "Mission accomplished" and --

GEN. PETRAEUS: Again, it -- you know, it depends how far along you are. I mean, I think we obviously have to have some degree of confidence that it wouldn't unravel. So again, I think you have to ask, where we are? I mean, there is national-level leadership and direction at this point. It does exist. Prime Minister Maliki is the commander in chief. He does issue orders.

You know, another very important case was the celebration of the Seventh Imam commemoration in Baghdad. This is one of the holiest Shi'a celebrations. It focuses on a shrine in Kadhimiya in north- central Baghdad; that's the one that you'll recall -- I believe it was in 2005 -- where there were nearly a thousand of the pilgrims that were killed when there was a stampede due to either rumor of action or possibly actually enemy action.

The other two years around that, there have been dozens of Iraqis killed. This particular year, the Iraqi Baghdad Operational Command oversaw the operation, the ministry is very much invested in it. It involved not just army and police but also emergency services, the transportation ministry, a whole host of other ministries that all would be involved in this, and to our knowledge, there was not a death caused by enemy action, which is really a fairly extraordinary accomplishment.

SEN. THUNE: Well, again, we -- my time has expired as well, but many of us have concerns about some of the national interests that you've articulated with regard to our efforts there, particularly the possibility of an Iranian-supported Shi'a state that would exercise more influence and obviously put not only that region but I believe our country at risk as well.

And we thank you for the efforts that you're making, and encourage you -- there are a lot of us who want to -- that are cheering for you, hope you succeed. You've been exposed to a political dimension of the debate that occurs here in Washington in the last few days that -- on a level that's regrettable, but notwithstanding that, I think a majority of Americans and a lot of us up here want to see us succeed, so thanks again for your service.

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