Hearing of the Immigration, Citizenship, Refugees, Border Security and International Law Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee.
Interview
HEARING OF THE IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP, REFUGEES, BORDER SECURITY AND INTERNATIONAL LAW SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
SUBJECT: THE SECURITY THROUGH REGULARIZED IMMIGRATION AND A VIBRANT ECONOMY ACT OF 2007
REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): As members arrive, the hearing on the Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship, Refugees, Border Security, and International Law will come to order.
I would like to welcome the Immigration Subcommittee members, our witnesses, and the public to the committee's continuing discussion regarding comprehensive immigration reform.
First, I'd like to apologize to everyone who was here at exactly 1:00, when the hearing was to begin. The bells rang, and we had a series of votes that has delayed us for one hour, and that is just one of the risks that we face serving in the House of Representatives, and I'm sorry that it has delayed all of you and inconvenienced you.
Today, our hearing will specifically address one comprehensive immigration reform bill, H.R. 1645, otherwise known as the STRIVE Act, or the Security Through Regularized Immigration and a Vibrant Economy Act of 2007.
I would like to commend our subcommittee colleague, Representative Luis Gutierrez for not only drafting and introducing this bill but also for his service in behalf of comprehensive immigration reform in the 110th Congress and in many congresses before the 110th. Since Representative Gutierrez became a member of Congress in 1992, he has been a champion for immigration reform.
I was personally enormously disappointed when the Senate was unable to proceed on comprehensive reform this spring. We were prepared, on the House side, to tackle this important issue, but because of Senate inaction, we didn't get the chance to proceed on hearings or a mark-up on the STRIVE Act.
The details matter though, and today we will get information and details on the STRIVE Act. We can't know what the future will hold for comprehensive reform, but we can be armed with knowledge about the leading legislation in the House to meet the immigration challenge.
Because this hearing is about his bill, I would like to yield the balance of my time to my colleague from Illinois who may properly introduce the subject of our hearing today, after which we will recognize the ranking member for his opening statement, Mr. Gutierrez.
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REP. LOFGREN: I thank the chairman. And in the interest of proceeding to our witnesses, mindful of our busy schedules, I'd ask that other members submit their statements for the record within five legislative days. And without objection, all opening statements will be placed into the record. And without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of this hearing at any time.
We are honored to have four of our colleagues as witnesses today. We know you well, but not everyone here in the witness room necessarily knows you. So I'm going to introduce each distinguished person.
Seated first on the panel is Congressman Jeff Flake who is serving his first term in Congress representing Arizona's 6th Congressional District. Before serving in the House, Mr. Flake was the Executive Director of the Foundation for Democracy, a foundation monitoring the South African nation of Namibia's independence process.
Following his work at the foundation, he was named the executive director of the Goldwater Institute. He graduated from Brigham Young University, where he received his bachelor's degree in international relations and a master's degree in political science. Along with Congressman Gutierrez, Congressman Flake is the principle co-author of the STRIVE Act, and he and his wife, Cheryl, have five children.
I would next like to welcome my co-Californian, Congressman Joe Baca, who has represented California's 43rd District since 1999. Congressman Baca served as an Army paratrooper between 1966 and '68, after which he earned his bachelor's degree from California State University-L.A. Congressman Baca and his wife, Barbara, opened their own business in San Bernardino in 1989 while raising four children.
First elected to the California State Assembly in 1992 and the State Senate in 1998, we of course know Congressman Baca as a leader on the Agricultural and Financial Services Committees and serves now as the distinguished chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
It also my pleasure to introduce Congressman Ray LaHood, serving his seventh term as the representative from Illinois' 18th District. The grandson of a Lebanese immigrant, Congressman LaHood earned his bachelor's degree in education and sociology from Bradley University. He began his professional career as a junior high school teacher, and after serving in the Illinois State House in 1982, he served as the chief of staff to House Republican leader, Bob Michel.
A member of the Appropriations Committee, Congressman LaHood and his wife, Kathy, have four children, seven grandchildren. And all of us are sad to know that Ray has said this is his last term with us here, and it's been a pleasure to serve with him these many years.
And finally, I'm pleased to recognize another co-Californian, the minority's witness, Congressman Brian Bilbray, the representative from California's 50th District since of June of 2006. Congressman Bilbray was first elected to Congress in 1994 and co-chaired the Federation for American Immigration Reform between 2001 and his 2006 election.
In addition to his work on the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Veterans Affairs, and Science and Technology, he is a member of the Republican Policy Committee and chairs the Immigration Reform Caucus. A native of San Diego, Congressman Bilbray has served San Diego County for over two decades as a mayor, as a county supervisor, and as a member of Congress.
And I would note that I first met Brian when we served on our respective county boards of supervisors, myself in Santa Clara and he in San Diego. He and his wife, Karen, have five children and five grandchildren -- well, six grandchildren, lucky you.
So we will begin with your testimony. You know the drill on the lights and the five-minute rule, but obviously we will not have a heavy gavel, and we would ask, Congressman Flake, if you would begin.
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REP. LOFGREN: Thank you. Thanks for all of you. I don't know. We're an hour late, and I know that because all of us have busy schedules, you may, too. So I want to ask you whether you are able to stay for questions. And if any of you are unable to, I'm sure the committee will understand. But if not, I'll start.
And I wonder, Congressman LaHood, if I could start with you, because you represent a district that is rural and in the center of this country. You referenced the no-match letters.
I'm just wondering if you thought if we do nothing, given the new enforcement efforts and the no-match letters that are going on, and actually, the reports we've received from the border patrol is that we've really tightened up on the border and the number of unauthorized crossings is dropping. What do you see happening in the economy and in the country if there isn't some movement on some of these issues?
REP. LAHOOD: Well, we know that, in the agricultural community, there is a huge shortage right now, and that those that are now in the field trying to harvest the crops that they have produced throughout the spring and summer, there's going to be a great deal of difficulty. And people are worried about the kind of talk that goes on here in Washington, and people are concerned about it.
And what I've tried to explain to people back home is that we've done a lot on enforcement. The previous majority, of which I was a member of obviously, passed an awful lot of laws and a lot of penalties and tried to address some of the issues having to do with illegals and employers who brought people here illegally and some of the other issues.
But frankly, people in the landscaping business, the agricultural business, the meat packing business, want us to do something so they'll have the workforce available to them in a legal way so they can continue to do the things that they know how to do so well.
REP. LOFGREN: I'd like to ask Congressman Flake, we all know Arizona, as you said, is sort of ground zero for undocumented immigration issues, and yet Arizona elected officials have had a fairly forthright stand on coming up with comprehensive solutions, yourself, your senator, Mr. McCain, your governor.
And I think about the two hotly contested races where immigration was the major issue. And Mr. Mitchell and Ms. Gifford that got elected on more of the we need to have a comprehensive type solution.
So what is unique about Arizona that is allowing, even in the face of tremendous challenges that you described in your testimony, the elected officials to come forward saying we can come up with a solution.
REP. FLAKE: I think Arizona, because we are on the front line, we understand that it needs to be comprehensive. I think, in Arizona, we understand that even if you were to seal the border completely, we would remember that over 40 percent of those who are here illegally didn't sneak across it. They came legally and have overstayed.
So it's got to be at the employer level that this is going to succeed. And I think we understand there as well that you've got to give employers the tools if you want real enforcement.
And lastly, as I mentioned, in Arizona probably more than elsewhere, across the country it's 5 percent of the workforce is illegal or undocumented, 5 percent. It represents about 7 million people. And nobody that I have heard, I have not seen one deportation bill introduced by anyone saying, "Let's go round them up and deport them all tomorrow."
And those who say that, "Oh, we can move forward. We don't need the labor," are counting on the fact that we simply can't enforce the current law quickly at all. It'll take years to do so. And so, I think in Arizona we recognize that it's got to be comprehensive solution that involves certainly more border security but also employer enforcement and an interior enforcement, and then a meaningful temporary worker program that actually gives employers access to legal workers who are coming.
REP. LOFGREN: Finally, Mr. Baca, I would note at our very first hearing in Ellis Island, we had the chief of the border patrol as a witness and his testimony. In his testimony he said, "You will never secure the border if you don't have comprehensive immigration reform." That was his testimony to us there.
As chair of the Hispanic Caucus, you're not sharing the border effort, but the caucus has had the same strong commitment to comprehensive reform. Can you share with us why this is such a priority for the caucus and the people of the caucus represented?
REP. BACA: Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, this bill actually helps immigrants currently in the United States legally. By legalizing the undocumented immigrants, they're more likely to earn wages that are competitive with today's legal immigrants. In turn, undocumented immigrants would have to go to the back of the line to earn legalization. So they can't jump the line, so it would help overall.
And finally, many illegal immigrants to date, including Hispanics, are struggling to keep their families together in the U.S. Parents are being deported while their U.S. children are left behind, and families across the U.S. are being torn apart and are waiting through years of delay to be reunited. STRIVE helps them in family reunification for hard working tax paying families, including illegal immigrants here in the United States.
And many of the individuals that are here come here for a better way of life. We know that the enforcement is not the answer. The border is not the answer. Comprehensive is the answer to many of the individuals that want to be here. And for anybody to say that they're going to go in front of the line, no. No one's going to go in front of the line.
We also realize that many of the undocumented have spent approximately $57 million for social security. They continue to pay taxes any time they go to any one of our stores, bring revenues into our area. They help build our economy. By allowing a comprehensive immigration legislation, will allow individuals to become taxpayers and pay into our system and have the kind of security that we want for our nation.
We'll know who's here illegally and who is not here legally. We'll know who are neighbors are and should be here. Our country would be a lot safer.
REP. LOFGREN: Thank you, Mr. Baca. And I note that my time has expired, and I'll try and be better in the future. So I turn now to Ranking Member, Mr. King, for his questions.
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REP. LOFGREN: Mr. King and I just came back from Mexico and Mr. Berman also. Thank you very much, and we'll now ask our next panel to come forward. As we have our next panel coming forward, I know that one of our witnesses has already told us that she has a plane to catch at 4:00 and is going to have to leave at that time. That's Cassandra Butts, who we've known for so many years, and she worked here on the Hill, so I just wanted to announce that in advance. When the magic hour comes, Cassandra is heading for the airport.
Alright. It's a complicated task here. Alright. I'm going to begin the introduction of our witnesses, and thank you again for taking the time to be with us here today.
People don't realize when they watch these hearings that these are individuals who really out of the goodness of their heart have come here to share their information, their experiences to inform the Congress, and it's a great donation to your government and we appreciate it a great deal.
Seated first on the panel -- we have Tony Wasilewski, a small business owner from suburban Chicago. Raised on his family's his farm in Poland, Mr. Wasilewski fled Poland's Communist regime in 1989. He married his wife Janina here in the United States in 1993, and they are proud parents of their six year-old son, Brian. The family has made their home in Schiller Park, Illinois where they own a janitorial contracting business. After Janina was deported earlier this year, Mr. Wasilewski became active with several immigrant advocacy organizations. Later this month on September 18th, to be precise, Mr. Wasilewski will take the oath of allegiance and officially become a United States citizen.
Next we are pleased to have Eduardo Gonzalez join us, serving his fourth year in the U.S. Navy as a helicopter mechanic. Born in Mexico in 1983, Mr. Gonzalez came to the United States as a child with his mother and two brothers. After participating in (ROTC ?), he graduated from high school in 2001. Mr. Gonzalez earned an associates degree in occupational studies. The proud father of 22-month-old Eduardo Jr., Mr. Gonzalez became a U.S. citizen on July 21st, 2005. He has completed two tours of duty in the Middle East and is in preparation for his third deployment. On behalf of Congress and the American people, Mr. Gonzalez, we owe you and your family our most genuine gratitude for your service.
I'm pleased next to introduce Reverend Luis Cortez Jr., the President and CEO of Esperanza USA. In addition to his work with Esperanza, Reverend Cortez serves on the board of the Federal Home Loan Bank in Pittsburgh and was appointed to the Pennsylvania Minority Business Development Authority and Philadelphia Workforce Investment Board, is one of the founders of the United Bank, Pennsylvania's first African American owned commercial bank. Raised in Spanish Harlem, Reverend Cortez graduated with honors from City College in New York with a Masters of Divinity -- (inaudible) -- Theology Seminar and with a Masters degree from New Hampshire College.
It is my pleasure to next introduce Joshua Hoyt, Director of the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. Mr. Hoyt has worked for nearly 30 years as a social justice advocate in both the United States and abroad. Before serving the directorship of the coalition in 2002, Mr. Hoyt served for four years as the executive director of the Organization of the Northeast in Chicago as president of Illinois' largest consumer organization, the Citizens' Utility Board, and as associate director of the United Power for Action and Justice in Chicago. My. Hoyt is a graduate of the University of Illinois and (Central ?) University of Barcelona in Spain.
We'd also like to extend our welcome to Cassandra Q. Butts, the Senior Vice President for Domestic Policy at the Center for American Progress, or CAP. Prior to her work at CAP, Ms. Butts served as the senior advisor to former Democratic leader and presidential candidate Richard Gephardt and as an advisor to Senator Barack Obama. She's practiced law as an assistant council for the NAACP's Legal Defense and Education Fund, and she served as an international observer during Zimbabwe's 2000 parliamentary elections. She earned her Bachelor's degree from the University of North Carolina at Chaplin Hill and her law degree from Harvard University.
It's my pleasure next to introduce Michael Barrera, the president and CEO of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Due to a last minute scheduling conflict, Mr. Barrera will be leaving the testimony prepared by his colleague, David Lizarraga, the chairman of the Board of Directors at the Hispanic Chamber. Prior to his selection as president, Mr. Barrera was appointed by President Bush in 2001 to serve as the national ombudsman for the United States Small Business Administration. A native of Kansas, Missouri, Mr. Barrera earned his bachelor's degree from Kansas State University and his law degree from the University of Texas. He co-founded two law firms in Kansas City and served as an assistant prosecutor in Jackson County, Missouri.
Finally I'd like to welcome the minority's two witnesses, the first of whom is Julie Kirchner, the director of Government Relations at FAIR, the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Prior to joining FAIR, Ms. Kirchner worked as council at the Minnesota House of Representatives while she staffed the Judiciary and Civil Law Committees. In addition to her legislative experience, Ms. Kirchner has worked both as a private litigator and a criminal prosecutor. She earned her -- I'm sorry. She earned her Bachelor's degree from Yale University and her law degree with high distinction from the University of Iowa, College of Law.
And finally I'm pleased to welcome Corey Stewart, the chairman at-large for the Prince William County Board of Supervisors in Virginia. Chairman Stewart was elected in 2006 after serving for three years on the board as the district supervisor from Aquacon. He earned his B.S. from Georgetown University School of Foreign Service and his law degree with honors from William Mitchell College of Law. He also practices law as an international trade attorney with the Washington firm of Foley and Lager (ph).
Now, each of your statements will be made part of our record in their entirety, and so we would ask that you testify -- summarize if necessary for five minutes. We have these little machines on the table. When the light turns yellow it means you've got one minute left. I know. It always seems faster than possible. And when the red light goes on it means you've actually used up your five minutes. And we would ask you to please summarize and conclude. So we have a lot of witnesses and we want to hear from all of you.
So that is how we will proceed, and we will start with Mr. Wasilewski, and I hope I'm not mispronouncing your name too severely.
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REP. LOFGREN: Thank you, and thank you all for your testimony. And it has been a long afternoon, but I think it's been an instructive one. And we will have just a set of questions and then we will adjourn. And I'll begin, if I may.
Mr. Wasilewski and Petty Officer Gonzalez, it seems to me, if I'm hearing you correctly, that you both -- in the case -- you're a U.S. citizen. You're a legal resident about to become a U.S. citizen, and that your wives would have been permitted under existing immigration law to get a legal visa except for -- changes were made to the law in 1996 on this three and ten-year bar. Is that your understanding? That's the only thing that's really standing in the way at this point?
MR. WASILEWSKI: Yes, Ms. Chairman. Immigration officials said she broke the law. But my wife has never done anything wrong here in the United States. She has no criminal record, not even a parking ticket. And they were both -- because Janina -- she tried to follow the legal procedures for staying in the United States, but by applying for political asylum, she exposed herself --
REP. LOFGREN: Right.
MR. WASILEWSKI: -- to the immigration system and was deported.
REP. LOFGREN: So she thought she was -- she was trying to follow the rules and got caught in this trap.
MR. WASILEWSKI: Yes.
REP. LOFGREN: Petty Officer Gonzalez, this three and ten-year bar -- is that really what's the issue? Because you're an American, I mean, not only an American, but we thank you once again for your service to our country. The rule is that if you're an American citizen you can apply for your spouse. I mean, we're not trying to choose who Americans marry, but it's this three and ten-year bar issue, isn't it?
MR. GONZALEZ: No, ma'am. When we got together, me and my wife, she had already applied for asylum/NACARA.
REP. LOFGREN: Under the NACARA.
MR. GONZALEZ: Right. And she was already in proceedings, in her process. Now, when we got married that changed her status and could no longer --
REP. LOFGREN: Right.
MR. GONZALEZ: She could no longer be granted status under those set of rules.
REP. LOFGREN: Under the NACARA, right.
MR. GONZALEZ: Right. And so now since she didn't get it -- so now she got sent to removal proceedings because she was exposed also.
REP. LOFGREN: Right. Well, I just think -- if I can -- the old immigration lawyer in me and old immigration law professor tells me that this is a massive bill, and a lot of the attention has been focused on the 12 million undocumented, and that's appropriate. I mean, there is a lot of -- it's an enormously important challenge for those individuals of our country and for the economy and the like.
But also, within the -- are elements of -- it's an intricate law, and under ordinary principles -- I mean, the rule has always been in modern history that the federal government doesn't tell Americans who they get to marry. I mean, we're not going to make a selection, and Americans get to -- if you're an American citizen, you get to have your spouse stay here with you. We changed the rules on that, well, 11 years ago. In the STRIVE Act that is made an issue, and maybe that's one of the things that we should be attending to in addition to some of the issues that have gotten more attention.
I'm just wondering, Mr. Gonzalez, Petty Officer Gonzalez -- and you're in service to our country and you're in this situation. I don't think most Americans would think that's a very good situation. I don't think most people would -- they'd be surprised that an American serviceman would be in this situation. Have you run into other people in military service that have had similar problems?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, ma'am. I have countless people that are in the same situation as I am to where they try to play by the rules. And when we play by the rules and we no longer qualify by the rules, we get exposed, and then we have to go to the next step, which is removal proceedings. And there is many people in my shoes, and I'm speaking for a lot of them, and they are in the same situation I am. They just don't want to say anything about it.
REP. LOFGREN: I am -- I think I -- think you could -- I understand we announced that earlier. I would like to ask Reverend Cortez -- you've been here before us to testify, and I always look forward to listening to your wonderful voice.
But in your written testimony you talk about law abiding individuals living in fear. What can we -- and I know that that's the case. What can we do to eliminate this climate of fear that's occurring in our neighborhoods that you described?
MR. CORTEZ: Well, law abiding people -- by that I include both clergy, of which -- we're an association of clergy, a national network -- clergy and individual families who are citizens, but they all know someone who's undocumented. So the climate of fear that's being created is on two sides: On one side you have racial profiling, and we know of the cases now where American citizens who happen to have Hispanic surnames and happen to be working in a place that has a raid are being arrested illegally.
We also -- so on one side you have that issue of fear. On the other side you have the fear that if you call a police officer and they're empowered and one cousin or an uncle or someone in the neighborhood isn't documented, clergy now for the first time have to make a decision whether we work with the police, which traditionally in inner city communities -- ministers have been at the forefront with police departments fighting issues of -- fighting over issues of crime, specifically drug interdiction and others.
On June 23rd, I participated in a process where 56 police chiefs were represented by Sylvester Johnson from -- the Philadelphia chief of police. And all of them said that they would not want their officers to begin to track down undocumented immigrants because in Hispanic communities, as well as in Middle Eastern communities, in African communities, it was going to raise havoc between good, law abiding citizens and the police department when they had a family member or a friend who was undocumented.
REP. LOFGREN: Thank you, and my time is expired, so I'll turn to the ranking member for his questions.
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REP. LOFGREN: Thank you. Gentlelady's time has expired. Without objection, I'll (submit ?) into the record the statements from Congressman Hilda Solis that she's asked to be made apart of the record. And I would like to thank all of you for sticking with us in this lengthy day. I think that the testimony we've heard today is significant and important. I believe that we need to reform our laws from A to Z, and maybe we start at M, but we've got to get this job done at some point. And how we tackle it is a challenge, but I think having this hearing is going to help us. It will be a foundation for moving forward. And your testimony will help as well.
So thank you all very, very much, and this hearing is adjourned. We have five legislative days to submit additional questions, and if we do have additional questions, we ask that you answer them as promptly (as possible ?).
REP.: Thank you.
REP. LOFGREN: Thank you.
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