Hearing of the House Committee on Homeland Security Subject: Holding the Department of Homeland Security Accountable for Security Gaps

Statement

HEARING OF THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
SUBJECT: HOLDING THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY ACCOUNTABLE FOR SECURITY GAPS
CHAIRED BY: BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS)
WITNESS: MICHAEL CHERTOFF, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

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We now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. McCaul, for five minutes.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being here today. And let me say it was an honor to be with you in the Justice Department when you were assistant attorney general. I believe whether you return to the department or stay in your current position I know you will serve your country well and you have served your country well.

SEC. CHERTOFF: (Off mike.)

REP. MCCAUL: I want to just echo the ranking member's comments on the 9/11 bill. As a conferee, we really tried hard to implement the recommendation. It had to do with Congress providing a principal, single point of oversight. I know that you've had -- you have about 88 different committees and subcommittees; you've had about 4,000 different briefings and hearings. And while we have the responsibility of oversight, I believe we need to conduct that in a responsible way, and I believe that recommendation should have been implemented. I'm sorry that it was not. Your time is valuable, and I think you need to -- you need ample time to do what you're supposed to be doing, that is tracking the terrorists and protecting the homeland.

We had a very important debate last month in the Congress, you referenced to it. But I wanted to get your -- just your viewpoints not only as the head of Homeland Security, but as a former Justice Department official, and that is the FISA modernization. I worked on these FISA's, the national security wiretaps when I served. You had to be an agent of a foreign power in the United States, and what we were hearing was that even if you're an agent outside the United States talking to someone outside the United States in a foreign country, that we would still have to go through the FISA Court.

Fortunately, after a lot of opposition and a very healthy debate, we did pass that measure, and it was signed into law by the president. But the fact of the matter is, intelligence is the first line of defense in the war on terror; the old adage, "We have to be right every time, and they only have to be right once." Through your good work we were able to stop the JFK plot, the London arrest and now recently we've heard in Germany and Denmark the success, and people tend to forget about these things. We all remember 9/11. We tend to forget about the successes we've had in stopping this.

I don't know to what extent you can comment on these two plots and what was entailed. And also, with respect to Pakistan, we have a very volatile situation brewing where we have military Pakistani army being taken hostage by Islamic radicals. Obviously Pakistan has nuclear weapons, and the idea of Pakistan being taken over by Islamic extremists is of great concern to me and this Congress.

So if you could just comment, if you will, on the impact you believe that this new law that we passed in the Congress what impact that will have with respect to your job.

SEC. CHERTOFF: Well, first of all, let me echo what you said about focusing oversight of the department and this committee. Not only is it a matter of saving time, but I think this committee and of course the appropriators who deal with us are the two bodies in the House that are best situated to have a holistic view of what goes on here, and not to look at the department as an accumulation of individual components that have, you know -- where you have a little slice of jurisdiction, but where you really have the big picture. And oversight is important, but it should obviously be disciplined and coordinated oversight, and anything we can do to help support strengthening this committee's ability to conduct its important mission is something we'd be happy to do.

I think, as you know from your own experience, Congressman, the best way to stop something bad from happening is to have the intelligence to detect it so you can intervene, otherwise you're relying upon your ability to spot something while it's under way.

Otherwise you're relying upon your ability to spot something while it's underway. And I think in the modern world, the ability to intercept communications, both from my own experience doing criminal cases and from what I've seen in the national security areas, probably the number one tool -- to use the analogy Congressman Shays used earlier with respect to the Cold War, this is like radar.

And not to have this tool would be as if, in the middle of the Cold War, we had said, we're going to take our radar system down, and when the enemy bombers come over, you see them over the horizon, then we'll launch our fighters. You would not have wanted to fight the Cold War that way. I think it's important that the bill which Congress passed over the summer be extended and made permanent, so we can make sure that our intelligence community can have the confidence they will be able to continue to use this tool going forward.

REP. MCCAUL: And to the extent -- I have a little bit of time. Is it possible for you to comment or elaborate any more on the two plots that were failed?

SEC. CHERTOFF: I'm limiting myself just to what I think the foreign governments have said, because I don't want to step on their toes. I think the Danish have confirmed that they saw al Qaeda connections with the people that they arrested. And I think the Germans have indicated that the people they arrested, the three individuals, were connected with Islamic Jihad Union, which is an affiliated group. And I think both countries have confirmed that there was some training activity that occurred in South Asia.

I do think, as the National Intelligence Estimate said, we are very aware and concerned about training activities in certain parts of Pakistan. I think in the last couple of months, the Pakistani army and government has been more vigorous in pressing on some of those locations where activities are taking place. But I don't think we should underestimate the challenge you have of groups of fighters who are collecting in Pakistan, and perhaps in other parts of South Asia, looking for -- and in Iraq frankly, looking for safe havens in which they can train.

And the more space they get, the more efforts we're going to see, like what we've seen in Denmark or in Germany, particularly recruiting foreigners coming from Western Europe, training them and then sending them back in order to carry out missions. And it's only a six-hour plane ride from Western Europe to the United States. That's why we're working not only to build up the -- to toughen our Visa Waiver Program up. But we're working to get more intelligence and more signals intelligence, so we can help our friends overseas protect themselves, because that's good for us as well.

REP. MCCAUL: Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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