Hearing of the House Committee on Homeland Security - Holding the Department of Homeland Security Accountable for Security Gaps

Statement

Hearing of the House Committee on Homeland Security - Holding the Department of Homeland Security Accountable for Security Gaps

REP. THOMPSON: (Sounds gavel.)

The Committee on Homeland Security will come to order. The committee is meeting today to receive testimony from Secretary Michael Chertoff to discuss his plans to implement the recently enacted H.R. 1, the implementation recommendations of the 9/11 Commission Act.

Good morning, Mr. Secretary. Glad to have you. Secretary Chertoff, on behalf of the members of the committee, again, let me welcome you here today.

It's been four years since the Department of Homeland Security was created. Mr. Chertoff, for two years now, roughly half of the department's operational life, you've been the individual directly and primarily responsible for assuring that the department can fulfill its important mission. A few weeks ago, this nation paused to remember the victims of Hurricane Katrina and observed the second anniversary of that devastating storm. In a few days, we will again pause to memorialize the victims of the September 11th attack and mark the sixth anniversary of that earth-shattering day.

As we in this Congress and the American people mark these tragic milestones in our nation's history, we all know -- you, me and everyone within the sound of my voice -- that these events have strengthened our resolve, increased our vigilance and enhanced our commitment to ensuring the preparedness, response and resiliency of this nation. And I'm sure that today you will take the opportunity to tell this committee and indeed the nation that our country is better prepared than it was on September 11th to respond to a terrorist attack and that we are ready to meet the challenges of a natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina. I look forward to learning about your plans to implement H.R. 1, which statutorily enacted the recommendations of the 9/11 commission. And as I look forward to hearing about these new plans, I would be remiss if I did not wonder whether you remain -- will remain at the department long enough to carry out what you will discuss today.

As you know, during the August recess, the media was abuzz with the news of the resignation of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales; likewise, there are many talking heads who have suggested that you are a prime candidate to accept the position of attorney general. And so before you begin your testimony, Mr. Secretary, I would like you to inform us whether you plan to remain secretary of the Department of Homeland Security for the duration of this administration. I also ask this question not to put you on the spot, but rather to gain some clarity on the future picture of this department.

As you know, in a July report, committee staff found that nearly one-quarter of the senior leadership positions located in the Department of Homeland Security are vacant. In June, the National Journal found that DHS has added political positions to its ranks, giving it more political appointees than much larger departments such as Department of Veterans Affairs and Department of Defense. To make matters worse, Mr. Secretary, the department has failed to provide Congress with programs, plans and reports that are absolutely critical to securing the homeland.

For instance, where is the revised version of the National Response Plan? Why has DHS missed its deadlines for end-line baggage screening equipment? Where is the department's strategic plan for deploying explosive detection equipment at airport checkpoints? Why hasn't the National Emergency Family Registry and Locator System been established? And where are the final regulations, Mr. Secretary, for TWIC?

So, Mr. Secretary, if you're going to leave this Cabinet post to take a different Cabinet seat, the American people and I need to have a clear vision on what remains to be done.

If you plan on staying this Cabinet seat until January 2009, the committee needs to make sure that certain things have been accomplished before you go. In fact, Mr. Secretary, before you leave here today, I will give you a to-do list that specific -- specifies each item which should be accomplished before your tenure's over. When all these things have been done, I will be able to say that we are safer now than we are today.

We owe the American people security. We owe them accountability. And most importantly, we owe them freedom from fear.

And so as you detail your plan to implement the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, I'll be listening closely to hear how you also plan to fill key vacancies at the department and your plans for completing all of your outstanding responsibilities.

With that, again, I thank you for being here today, and I look forward to your testimony.

The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee, the gentleman from New York, Mr. King, for an opening statement. Mr. King.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

So I would ask, Mr. Chairman, if I could introduce into the record a letter from the ranking member and the Republican members of the committee to the secretary, dated May 25th, and Secretary Chertoff's response to us, dated September 4th, 2007, and ask they be made a part of the record.

REP. THOMPSON: Without objection.

REP. KING: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

I look forward to your testimony and I want to again thank Chairman Thompson. Whatever disagreements we may have on particular issues, the fact is the committee is working in a very strong, bipartisan way under his leadership. And I think this hearing is going to be indicative of that. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. Other members of the committee are reminded that on the committee rules, opening statements may be submitted for the record.

Again I welcome our witness today. When he was confirmed in 2005, Secretary Michael Chertoff became the second person to serve as the head of the Department of Homeland Security.

Prior to his confirmation, Mr. Chertoff served as a United States circuit judge for the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. Prior to that, he served as an assistant attorney general at the Department of Justice, where he was instrumental in helping to trace the September 11th terrorist attacks to the al Qaeda network. He has served in a number of other public service positions.

Mr. Chertoff, I thank you for your service, and I appreciate you agreeing to testify here today. Without objection, the witness's full statement will be inserted in the record.

Secretary Chertoff, I now recognize you to summarize your statement for five minutes, and if you go over, we won't penalize you.

Mr. Secretary.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. I thank you for your testimony.

I remind each member that he or she will have five minutes to question the secretary. I will now recognize myself for questioning.

Before I do that, let me again remind, on the committee rules cell phones should be put on vibrate. We love the ringtones, but they are quite distracting to the witnesses and the members. And I'll direct Mr. Twinchek that if he hears them to kind of go to the person who is violating committee rules.

Mr. Secretary, I was glad to hear that you say you plan to serve until the end of your term, but I also heard you say you serve at the will of the president and perhaps he will, in addition, promote you to another position.

Have you -- can you share with the committee any thoughts on that?

SEC. CHERTOFF: I don't think, Mr. Chairman -- it would be presumptuous of me to try to speak for the president. It would be presumptuous of me to discuss any conversations I've had with anybody at the White House. I think I've stated my position. You know, we all -- we all serve at the pleasure of the president in the executive branch, at least those who were Senate-confirmed, and of course, you know, God has to be willing that we complete our service as well. But I've indicated what my intent is and, you know, again, we'll move on from there.

REP. THOMPSON: Well, let's take it a little step lower then.

Josh Bolten at the White House, Bolten at the White House has indicated that he's requested of certain senior members that they provide him with a list of individuals as to whether or not they plan to stay on.

Have you been provided that request from the department?

SEC. CHERTOFF: Are you asking whether I was asked if I planned to stay or if I've asked others?

REP. THOMPSON: No, no -- for you to identify other people in the department.

SEC. CHERTOFF: No, we -- I haven't been asked to do that. Of course, I do -- I don't -- I haven't formally asked people in the department whether they intend to stay on in the sense of setting a cut-off. I have, however, had discussions with the senior leadership of the department. I am confident that -- again subject to limitations of, you know, presidential pleasure and God's willingness -- that the senior leadership team we have in place does intend to stay on, and I think we will shortly be filling the remaining gaps and vacancies. And I look forward to having continuity through the end of this --

REP. THOMPSON: Well, the reason I ask that, Mr. Secretary, is one of the, as you know, concerns expressed by members of this committee is the inordinate number of vacancies, and if in fact, as we wind down this administration, if that issue is elevated, it creates significant vulnerabilities for this country.

And so I'm asking it in the spirit of you recognizing that it's a concern and that to some degree you put together some plan, should that elevate itself to that level. But I just put that out, and I'm glad to say that you're on top of it, and I hope it does not become a problem.

Moving forward, the National Response Plan that was due June 1st -- that is now a National Response Framework. Can you tell me at what time we can expect it?

SEC. CHERTOFF: Yes. We circulated a -- first of all, let me say, we solicited literally hundreds of people, including many state and local responders, to have their input into this next version of the old National Response Plan. We then sat down and tried to distill all that advice into a document that would be readable, internally consistent and, frankly, somewhat shorter than the original plan that existed.

We then circulated, during the course of the summer, a draft final version of the plan and received a lot of comments. I'm envisioning that this month we will be issuing a -- the National Response Framework in its final form. It will not become effective immediately obviously, because we will need to then train people to it and exercise people to the new framework, and I don't think we're going to want to do that in the middle of the hurricane season. But we will have it out this month, the month of September.

In some ways, it'll be -- it's not going to be a radical change from the improvements we've already made, but I think what it will do is simplify and clarify some of the ambiguities that we discovered over the last couple of years.

REP. THOMPSON: But you do recognize that it was due at the beginning of this hurricane season, and we're not there, and that is a major concern of the committee.

Project 28.

SEC. CHERTOFF: Yes.

REP. THOMPSON: You and I have had some discussions about why we are two and a half months late from the initial pilot on that project. Can you give us any better timeframe on Project 28?

SEC. CHERTOFF: Just to clarify for those members of the committee who may not have been part of this discussion, Project 28 is the first stage of this high-tech SBInet program that we have for the border, and it was designed to allow us to test in real-life -- operational real-life the way these systems work not only individually but as an integrated package. That's the cameras, it's the radar, it's the common operating picture, and it's the ability to coordinate all of those in an automated fashion.

We tested various elements of this system, and the original plan was in the month of June to have the system at 28 miles of the Arizona border, have it fully integrated and then begin acceptance testing so that we could make a determination that we were satisfied with the product and take possession of it I think in July.

Let me emphasize why the acceptance testing is important. It's a little bit like buying a car. We didn't want to get stuck with a lemon, so one of the lessons we learned from watching some of the less-appealing contracting experiences of the past 10 years is that we should not accept something from the contractor and take responsibility for it unless we had really kicked the tires and not only taken it for a test drive but really gotten to drive it around for a while.

So we did put this through acceptance testing. And although the individual components of the system worked well, the system integration was not satisfactory. And therefore, the Customs and Border Protection operators, the Border Patrol operators said we are not satisfied with the system. We then had a series of what I would describe as frank and candid conversations with the contractor, Boeing, including a conversation I had with a CEO of Boeing and conversations that we had at lower levels, in which we explained our concerns about system integration.

We said, if this is not going to work, if it's too complicated, we're prepared to go back to the drawing board and do something simpler. And they assured us that, in fact, it's not too complicated; this is all proven technology.

They retooled their team on the ground and replaced some of the managers. At a very high level, they focused on this and they are now working through the problems of systems integration as we speak. In fact, I spoke to the CEO about this yesterday. We are now looking to begin acceptance testing in about a month, meaning that's the point at which they will say to us, we think you can test this. And we will then kick the tires again.

Here's my pledge to you. I want to get this thing done quickly. But more important, I want to get it done right. I am not going to buy something with U.S. government money unless I'm satisfied it works in the real world. And if it can't be made to work, I'm prepared to go and find something that will be made to work, although I'll obviously be disappointed. I believe the contractor understands what's at stake in getting this to work properly, and I think they're -- they've put their A team in place to do it.

But my mandate to the head of the Border Patrol is, I want to make sure the people who actually have to operate it are satisfied with the way it works, and that's what we're going to do. So I'm -- we're going to start acceptance testing in about a month. We should get it done well before the end of the year.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

But I just on that point say that the day before June 15th rollout, we were -- we had a hearing here and we were told, the next day, it would be ready to go. The only thing I share with you is we're concerned with whether or not it will cost the taxpayers more money, whether or not somehow this technology is somehow not proven to be what it is, if it's the contract or whatever. That virtual fence is absolutely important to our overall border security mission, and I would impress upon you that we need to do it.

Lastly before I go to the next -- (word inaudible) -- contract, Mr. Secretary, we understand is a sole-source no-bid contract. Committee staff has been trying to get a copy of that contract. Your testimony said that the department's going to be transparent. If you would for the committee provide us with a copy of that contract -- we got a copy late last night, and it was redacted contract. It was not what we needed. And in the interest of just being as transparent as we can in the department, we need it.

I call your attention to your to-do list. I'm sure James behind you has already made a copy of it.

SEC. CHERTOFF: Good.

REP. THOMPSON: And he's a good person, and I want to compliment him for the job that he does in communicating with us, and I look forward to it.

I now yield to the ranking member for any questions he might have.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. KING: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

I yield back.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

The chair now recognizes other members for questions they may wish to ask the witness. In accordance with our committee rules, I'll recognize members who are present at the start of the hearing, based on the seniority on the committee, alternating between majority and minority. Those members coming in later will be recognized in the order of their arrival.

The chair recognizes the gentleman from Massachusetts for five minutes. Mr. Markey.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. : Mr. Chairman, are we under a five-minute rule?

REP. THOMPSON: We are flexible.

REP. : Well, two and a half -- Mr. Chairman --

REP. THOMPSON: I say we are flexible.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the gentleman from Connecticut for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. The time of the gentleman has expired.

We now recognize the gentleman from Washington, Mr. Dicks, for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

Mr. Secretary, during the 9/11 conference we sought information on Visa Waiver and overstays. And in light of what Mr. Dicks questioning, we basically was told that no system exists for identification of individuals who overstay. So I look forward to whatever you can get back to us to shed some light on that issue.

It is a problem, as your office has already identified, Mr. Dicks.

We now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. McCaul, for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. Following up on your comment, Mr. McCaul, we will schedule a classified briefing at the committee's SCIF to talk on this very subject.

We now yield, to the gentlelady from California, five minutes, Ms. Harman.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me go over my time.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We'll now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Bilirakis, for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. We now yield five minutes to the gentlelady from the Virgin Islands, Ms. Christensen.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Brown-Waite, for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the young lady from Texas, for five minutes, Ms. Jackson Lee.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now yield five minutes to the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Rogers.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania for five minutes. Mr. Carney.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

Mr. Secretary, I appreciate you assuming the responsibility of the calls from members on reports. But as you know, most of those come forward with a timeline already in existence, and I think what would help us, if you could, without the extra communication from us, is just employ your people under you that these timelines are not going away and we have to meet them. I think that's what we're looking for.

SEC. CHERTOFF: No, I have done that. And let me -- because I mean, I -- we've actually put a very focused effort on accelerating the pace of our response to congressional reports, and I think we are doing better because I've been tracking it. I think this was a much narrower issue having to do with GAO feeling -- somehow they disagree with our -- either our -- how quickly we were responding or whether they agree or disagree with whether we are giving them the information they want. And I was simply going to say, if the controller general has an issue with this, he can call me.

I'm not hiding from him. I do direct that we cooperate. I recognize sometimes GAO wishes we didn't have lawyers present. We feel we need to have lawyers present, and that's a disagreement. But I was not aware there was a particular problem or general problem with what they perceived as cooperativeness, and if the controller general wants to raise that issue with me, he should say to me, look, I have a problem and be specific about it.

REP. THOMPSON: Chairman Carney would like to comment on --

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. CARNEY: Thank you, sir.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. And we will follow up on that because in the interests of transparency and Mr. Carney's chairman of the Oversight Committee, we need a reasonable time frame to get information. And once committee staff on the majority or minority side requests it, it's just like it's coming from the committee.

SEC. CHERTOFF: No, I understand. I understand that.

REP. THOMPSON: We'll now recognize the gentleman from Washington for five minutes, Mr. Reichert.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina for five minutes, Mr. Etheridge.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now recognize Mr. Broun of Georgia for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Broun.

We now recognize Mr. Green of Texas for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

SEC. CHERTOFF: Actually, I have -- I've seen it a bit. I haven't gotten my copy yet, though.

REP. GREEN: Well, having an opportunity to see it above -- I suppose I could share this one with you if you -- are you able to --

SEC. CHERTOFF: I actually can't read it.

REP. GREEN: Okay. Well, let me just -- folks -- Mr. Chairman --

REP. THOMPSON: Please.

REP. GREEN: In court, I'd say, "Your Honor."

REP. THOMPSON: You may approach. (Laughter.)

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

Mr. Secretary, since you mentioned the Peace Bridge in Buffalo, we're going to give the lady who knows more about it than probably anybody else here -- the gentlelady from New York, Ms. Lowey, for five minutes.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

I also have in my district, Mr. Chairman, an Entergy nuclear facility, and I think Ms. Lowey has kind of struck something, that I would ask that you provide the committee with whatever compliance requirements that FEMA or DHS has in its authority for all the nuclear plants we have in the country.

SEC. CHERTOFF: We'll do that.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you.

We now yield to the gentleman from Rhode Island for five minutes, Mr. Langevin.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. CUELLAR: Mr. Chairman, I know I've gone over my time, but in the -- since we're in the hurricane season I did have one more relating to FEMA and evacuation plans if you'd indulge me with additional time?

REP. THOMPSON: The gentleman requests additional time. Granted.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

We now yield five minutes to the gentleman from California, Mr. Lungren.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you very much.

On a sad note, we've just been notified that a former member of this committee, the original select committee, Representative Jennifer Dunn, has passed. And as you know, Mr. Reichert replaced her when she left Congress. And in addition to that, Representative Gillmor has also passed since this hearing has started, so it's been a tough morning for a lot of us.

Mr. Secretary, we want to thank you. We agreed to three hours. We've met the timeline on that. You've been most gracious for giving us that three hours.

And there will be some follow-up, as you know, to the area. But I also ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the Secretary Chertoff To-Do List, which we shared with you.

I'd also like to remind the committee that tomorrow we'll be holding a hearing on what I hope will be a series of hearings on spy satellites to homeland and related issues. We've invited the Department of Homeland Security Privacy and Civil Liberties expert and DNI to testify. I know Ranking Member King is as interested in this issue as I am and welcome his support for these hearings.

Hearing no further business, the committee stands adjourned. (Sounds gavel.)

SEC. CHERTOFF: By the way, please accept my condolences on the passing of two former members.

REP. THOMPSON: Yeah.

END.

Source