ABC News "This Week" -Transcript

Interview

ABC News "This Week" -Transcript

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This week, resignation.

SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R-ID): (From videotape.) I met with President Bush and informed him of my decision to conclude my government service --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Retirement.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA): (From videotape.) My work and service to Virginia as a senator will conclude upon the sixth of January, 2009.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Scandal.

SEN. CRAIG: (From videotape.) I am not gay. I never have been gay.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: A tough week for the GOP. Will the fallout continue through 2008, or could this be a turning point? That debate this morning with our headliners, the chairmen of the Senate campaign committees, Democrat Chuck Schumer and Republican John Ensign.

Then:

MR. HUCKABEE: (From videotape.) Enthusiasm, and if heart and spirit and if resourcefulness matter in a presidential race, we're going to do well.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But is all that enough to make Mike Huckabee a top-tier candidate for the Republican nomination? We'll ask him in a Sunday Exclusive.

George Will, Robert Reich, and Matt Bai of The New York Times debate the week's politics on our Roundtable.

Plus, Gretchen Wilson.

GRETCHEN WILSON: (From videotape.) School was something that, like most kids, I really thought I didn't need.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And as always, the Sunday Funnies.

JIMMY KIMMEL ("Jimmy Kimmel Live!"): (From videotape.) The terror alert level in our nation's airport bathrooms has been raised to lavender. (Laughter.)

ANNOUNCER: From Washington, "This Week" with ABC News chief Washington correspondent George Stephanopoulos.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, everyone. Senator Larry Craig must have feared the worst when he was arrested earlier this summer in that now-infamous men's room at the Minneapolis airport. But even he seems stunned by how quickly it ended his nearly three- decade career in Congress. Defiant on Tuesday, a more contrite Craig announced his retirement yesterday.

SEN. CRAIG: (From videotape.) I am deeply sorry. I have little control over what people choose to believe. Having said that, to pursue my legal options as I continue to serve Idaho would be an unwanted and unfair distraction of my job and for my Senate colleagues.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Those colleagues made it crystal clear that Craig had to go. Led by the chairman of the Republican campaign to take back the Senate, John Ensign of Nevada, who is here today with his Democratic counterpart, Chuck Schumer of New York.

Senators, welcome.

SEN. SCHUMER: Good morning.

SEN. ENSIGN: Morning.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Ensign, let me begin with you. One of Senator Craig's advisers is quoted in The New York Times this morning as saying, "Larry was shocked by the deafening silence by some and the rush to judgment by others, even in his own leadership." Was this a rush to judgment?

SEN. ENSIGN: I don't think so, simply because Larry had admitted guilt. This wasn't like he was just charged with something, especially something that he denied. He had admitted guilt, guilt to something that I thought was not only embarrassing to himself and his family but also to the whole United States Senate. That's one of the things that I -- I'm proudest about our leadership, is the swift action, not only calling for an immediate Senate investigation, ethics investigation, removing him from his committees, but also sending the signal to him that it was probably best that he resign. It was best for himself, best for his family, and best for the institution of the Senate.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But Senator, a lot of -- lot of critics have drawn a sharp contrast between that swift action in this case and the relative silence of Republican leaders in the case of Senator David Vitter of Louisiana, who was caught up in this prostitution story earlier this summer. One conservative critic, Ed Morrissey, the blogger Ed Morrissey, concedes that we had a guilty plea in this case, but he goes on to say that "unlike Craig, Vitter openly admits he broke the law and solicited prostitutes. Others serving in Congress at the moment have pleaded guilty to misdemeanors of more import than disorderly conduct without being forced to resign. If morality and credibility are at issue, why isn't Vitter being held to that standard?"

What's the answer?

SEN. ENSIGN: Well, first of all, what David Vitter did was before he got into the United States Senate. Secondly, he had not admitted --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He was in the House, though.

SEN. ENSIGN: He has not admitted to anything. The Senate Ethics Committee would have no jurisdiction over him. But secondly, you remember Barney Frank in the House of Representatives admitted to soliciting sex with a male prostitute, and he was not removed from the House of Representatives, was not censored in the House of Representatives. So, you know, I think that we have to look at exactly what happened here. Larry Craig admitted guilt. That is a big difference between being accused of something and actually admitting guilt to actually committing a crime. David Vitter never did that; Larry Craig did. Big difference.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He did -- he did confess to (sins ?). But Senator Schumer, what's your response? Is there a double standard here?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, I'm not sure. I mean, it is true that the facts are different in that Larry Craig did plead guilty to a crime. Let me tell you, I think the major point here that the American people are looking for is this, George: Everyone knows no party is without its blemishes. The question is how you -- how you react to them. And you know, for six years there were no -- there was no ethics reform in the Congress when the Republicans controlled it. We got into office and we've passed major ethics reform to deal with earmarks, to deal with campaign finance reform and bundling, and to deal with the lobbying. And so I think what the American people are looking for is not a blame game -- is this party worse than the other? -- but rather, who is trying to clean it up? And I think the record is clear; we're the ones trying to clean it up.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk also about the political fallout of this and also the retirement of Senator Mark (sic) Warner in Virginia this week. I know, Senator Schumer, you think that the Democrats have a good shot at that Idaho seat now that Senator Craig is getting out of the way. You might be close to alone in that judgment, but let's talk about Virginia.

SEN. SCHUMER: (Chuckles.)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Is Mark Warner your strongest candidate to replace John Warner?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, let me first say this: John Warner, the retiring Republican senator, served America long and honorably, and every one of us, Democrat and Republican, is going to miss him.

As for Virginia, Virginia's a state that's turning blue, as you saw with Senator Webb's victory in November. And clearly Mark Warner is an outstanding man. I've gotten to know him and spend some time with him recently. He's just exemplary, and yes, he'd be our strongest candidate. We hope he will run, but I have no idea whether he will. He's talking it over with his family, his confidantes, his friends, and we'll see what happens.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Ensign, you now have the retirements of Senator Craig, Senator Wayne Allard in Colorado, John Warner in Virginia. Are you worried about more? There's some talk that Senator Chuck Hagel may be retiring also, that Senator Domenici of New Mexico may not run. Are more retirements coming?

SEN. ENSIGN: I don't know if more retirements are coming. I feel very confident that Senator Domenici down in Mexico (sic) is -- is going to run for reelection and will be elected, I think, very strongly there. This is a competitive election cycle, there's no question. We have 22 seats to defend; the Democrats only have 12 seats to defend. We knew going in that this was going to be a tough election cycle for us.

But the good thing is -- that we have -- we have good people in place. Our incumbents are very, very strong. For those places where we have open seats, for instance in Colorado, we have a great candidate there, very good contrast. We have somebody who's a rock- solid conservative in a Republican state running against a bolder liberal. It's going to be a very good contrast there.

Virginia, we're going to -- we'll see what happens there are far as who comes out of the primary. I'm sure it'll be a contested Republican primary; it may even be a contested Democrat primary, and it's going to be a tough battle in the state of Virginia to see who represents that state. We're going to give it everything we have there.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Schumer, Senator Ensign mentioned that the Democrats are defending 12 seats, the Republicans 22. I'm going to put up a map that shows, that illustrates the -- the battle the Republicans have next time around. You see only 12 Democratic seats there, 22 Republican seats up. Which of those Republican seats do you think are most vulnerable right now?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, let me say this, George, first. The wind is at our back. If people's moods could be summed up about politics, it would be in four words: the people want change. And that means they want more Democrats; they want a change, of course, in the White House, but they also want a Senate that can get things done, and they realize that Republicans have obstructed every step of the way.

Our 12 Democratic incumbents, all of them look secure, and that gives us a -- that's our solid base, and we defend them first and foremost. There are four -- of the 22 Republican seats, there are four that are in blue states. They are Oregon, Minnesota, New Hampshire, and Maine, and we're feeling very optimistic about those. But here's the most amazing thing. Because the people want change so much -- change in Iraq, change to help the middle class, change in the ethical climate in Washington, we have opportunities in states that we never thought we would, in deeply red states, throughout the country, and we are going to be pursuing those. Now, having said that, the wind is at our back. If you did a snapshot today things would look very, very good for us. But I'm a realist. We're 14 months away from the election; things can change and change very rapidly --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Ensign, do you --

SEN. SCHUMER: -- but at the moment, we're feeling good.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you agree that all 12 Democratic seats are secure right now? What are your best hopes for pick-up on the Democrat side?

SEN. ENSIGN: Oh, not at all. I -- I think that definitely down in Louisiana we have a good shot at beating Mary Landrieu. A lot of changes going on down in Louisiana. And what Senator Schumer fails to mention, the American people elected the Democrats; that was clear last time. But they elected them to work in a bipartisan fashion, and the Democrats have failed to do that. I think it's time to -- whether it's Iraq, whether it's solving our problems in health care or education, it's time to rise above politics. It's time to start putting our country first before our party, and -- and that's what they're looking -- in leadership. The -- the Democrats came in with almost a 50 percent approval rating the first couple of months they were in office. The Congress's approval rating is at its lowest point in history. I think the American people are really disgusted with what the Democrats have done in Washington. But it -- it really is time to start (sic) -- all this partisan bickering back and forth, and sit down and work out the serious problems that we have in this country. And whether it's our foreign policy in this global war against radical Islam or -- or the other problems that are facing this country which are major -- health care, education. Those are huge problems that face our country.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Schumer, what's the one thing --

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, let me say this, George --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I was just going to say, what's the one thing this fall --

SEN. SCHUMER: What I was going to say is --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- where you could work with them in a bipartisan fashion?

SEN. SCHUMER: Oh, there are many things, and we're trying. We have a children's health bill now. This came about -- there are some 9 million children not covered with health care. Came about because of Democratic initiatives, but some courageous Republican senators, like Senator Grassley and Senator Hatch, joined us. The president has threatened to veto, but I think maybe we can overcome that veto. The minute we get back, another initiative -- to make college much more affordable to average Americans. What we'll do is increase the Pell grants for people who have trouble paying for college, and for the middle class, the student loan rate -- I'm paying it now, as my daughter, my big daughter, goes to law school -- is 6.85 percent. That's not much of a bargain. We're going to reduce it to a little more than 3 percent. These are Democratic initiatives that we can get done. We're getting some Republicans to work with us.

But in reference to John Ensign's comment, most of the time the Republicans in the Senate obstruct.

They've introduced more cloture votes than ever before; the president has said he won't support us on this and that. We desperately want to work with the Republicans for change, and we hope that what has happened in the White House, for instance, in the last few weeks -- Rove's departure, Gonzales's departure -- indicates that -- hope and pray -- that there's a new type of George Bush who will work with us instead of standing up on Mount Olympus and throwing thunderbolts and saying, "Do it my way or no way."

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator -- Senator Ensign, can you sign on to either the health care or the education initiative that Senator Schumer just talked about?

SEN. ENSIGN: Well, the education initiative offers some -- some real promise there. We've worked together on education initiatives with the Democrats in the past. As a matter of fact, a bill that -- that I helped put together called the America Competes Act, that was actually focused a lot on higher education, especially science and math education. Those are the kind of initiatives that we do need to -- to work together on.

But -- but just expanding the size of government and expanding how high our taxes have to be, that's what the Democrats call bipartisan working together. I want to look for -- for innovative solutions. For instance, I'd like to have everybody covered in this country with health care, health care that they can afford, in a private health care setting, private insurance, not a government-run, government-financed system. We ought to -- we can do that --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: (Inaudible.)

SEN. ENSIGN: We can join together to where we can make it affordable. What the Democrats want to do covers very few people. Republicans want to cover every American --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Schumer, I --

SEN. ENSIGN: -- without going to a government-run health care system.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're just about out of time.

SEN. : (Inaudible.)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Schumer, I've got to get one other thing in here.

SEN. SCHUMER: (Sure. ?)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Democrats did face an embarrassment this week when it was revealed that a fundraiser named Norman Hsu -- we show a picture here, him with Senator Hillary Clinton -- a major fundraiser for Senator Clinton, was a fugitive from fraud charges in California. He turned himself in. The Justice Department is now investigating him. He's been a real player in Democratic circles, giving $40,000 to the Democrat Senate Campaign Committee. How well do you know him, and will you give the money back?

SEN. SCHUMER: We've already given the money back. I know him; I don't know him very well. But the bottom line is nobody knew he was a fugitive. We try to vet all these things, and there are thousands and thousands of contributors and you don't catch every one. The press didn't catch him, either. But the important point is not only Senator Clinton, but all the Democratic candidates, the DSCC, D- triple-C, the minute we found out something was wrong, we returned the money.

More importantly, George, again, we are pushing for reform that will prevent these kinds of things from happening. The Republicans have tried to block us, but we finally got a bill through this July, and it's signed into law, and all of the major critics of the Congress -- Common Cause and others -- hailed this bill as a major step forward.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Okay.

SEN. SCHUMER: So we're trying to bring change here, change in Iraq --

SEN. ENSIGN: George, real quickly on that one, the one thing that they failed --

SEN. SCHUMER: -- change on -- change on the ethical climate in Washington.

(Cross talk.)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Ensign, 15 seconds.

SEN. ENSIGN: No, the one thing they failed to do in the ethics reform bill -- the one thing they failed to do on the ethics reform bill is underlying all of this. It's earmark reform. The people who have gone off after pork all these years, especially John McCain, did a press conference saying that the Democrats had an opportunity to stop all these outrageous earmarks that are stuck in under the -- the cloak of darkness, and the Democrats failed to do that. That was the -- so this ear --

SEN. SCHUMER: That -- that's not true.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's the last word today.

SEN. ENSIGN: -- this lobbying reform bill that they did is -- is really, really weak.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's the last word today.

SEN. SCHUMER: It's not true.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senators, thank you both very much.

SEN. : Thank you.

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