CNN "Late Edition"-Transcript

Interview

CNN "Late Edition"-Transcript

BLITZER: Welcome back to "Late Edition." I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Perhaps the only result of the Senate debate this week over the president's strategy in Iraq was that Congress now isn't likely to pass anything that would force a change before September's expected reports from General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker coming in by mid-September. Joining us now from Chicago to discuss that and more, one of the leaders of this debate, Illinois Senator Dick Durbin. He's the assistant majority leader, the number two Democrat in the U.S. Senate.

Senator Durbin, thanks for coming in.

DURBIN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Before we get to that, I want you to respond to what we just heard from the president's homeland security adviser, Fran Townsend. Do you have confidence in her and in the administration's handling of homeland security right now?

DURBIN: No. We've made some significant steps forward, but we had recommendations from the 9-11 Commission to do specific things to make America safer. And they've given a report card to this administration year after year, a failing report card. The administration has failed to enact the laws, to enact the appropriations necessary to make these recommendations the law.

This new Democratic Congress has passed these measures in the house and Senate. We're headed to a conference committee. I want to see these enacted into law. We will be safer as a result.

BLITZER: We've received the page-and-a-half declassified summary of the latest intelligence estimate, the National Intelligence Estimate. But many members of Congress now have been briefed on the declassified version. Have you?

DURBIN: I've certainly been briefed on the declassified version. What it tells us is that we still have a dangerous threat to America in terrorism, that Al Qaida is stronger today than we were in 9/11. And of course we understand, after putting massive resources into a war in Iraq, we have lost sight of the goal of capturing Osama bin Laden and closing down Al Qaida. We've turned Iraq into a training ground, unfortunately, for Al Qaida terrorists who are practicing on our soldiers.

BLITZER: I guess the question is, do you think this NIE, this product of the various U.S. intelligence agencies, is accurate, given the track record of some earlier NIEs, including Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, which didn't prove to be accurate?

DURBIN: I'm skeptical, of course, because of what we went through. When the American people were misled into this war in Iraq, it was based on faulty intelligence findings and a lot of political statements by the administration that weren't backed up by fact. And so there is a building skepticism. But I would have to say that there is a new confidence in the head -- national director of intelligence, Mr. Mcconnell, who briefed us several weeks ago. I thought it was one of the most positive and complete briefings we've received since I've been in the Senate.

BLITZER: Here's what the president said on Wednesday about Al Qaida. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Al Qaida is -- would have been a heck of a lot stronger today had we not stayed on the offense. And it's in the interest of the United States to not only defeat them overseas so we don't have to face them here, but to spread an ideology that will defeat their ideology every time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president points out, we heard Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, in the last hour point out that there's been no major terrorist attack against the United States in nearly six years on U.S. soil, since 9/11. What's wrong with the president's assessment?

DURBIN: Well, of course we're blessed and fortunate as a nation not to have suffered another terrorist attack. And we have to be vigilant every single moment. We can't let our guard down.

But even the president's intelligence agencies can see Al Qaida has used the war in Iraq to increase its ranks, to bring people from all over the Middle East and other countries to be terrorists threatening not only United States but many other nations. For the president to argue, if he's trying to, that the war in Iraq has somehow blunted the attack of Al Qaida, his own intelligence agencies disagree.

BLITZER: But you acknowledge -- I assume you acknowledge there are Al Qaida-affiliated operations under way in Iraq right now.

DURBIN: There's no question about it. There weren't at the time of our invasion. There was no evidence of Al Qaida in Iraq.

BLITZER: Well, what do you do with the Al Qaida operations that do exist in Iraq right now, those Al Qaida, those foreign fighters who are training there? Do you just walk away from them?

DURBIN: Absolutely not. And in fact, the Democratic proposal, supported by four Republican senators in the last vote this week said that we would retain our responsibility as part of our transition to have a mission to go after Al Qaida terrorists and other terrorist groups within Iraq. I think that is the appropriate thing to do. We can't allow Iraq to become a training ground for Al Qaida.

BLITZER: Russ Feingold, your Democratic colleague from Wisconsin, now saying he's going to introduce a legislation of censure against the president. Listen to what he said on "Meet the Press."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEINGOLD: I think we need to do something serious in terms of accountability. And that's why I will be shortly introducing a censure resolution of the president and the administration. One on their getting us into the war of Iraq -- in Iraq and their failure to adequately prepare our military and the misleading statements that have continued throughout the war in Iraq. And the second on this administration's outrageous attack on the rule of law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You think this is a good idea? Will you support Senator Feingold?

DURBIN: I want to read the censure resolution.

DURBIN: Let me say, Russ Feingold e-mailed me this morning with some information about his suggestions. He is a thoughtful, responsible senator. He understands, as I do, this is not only an unpopular presidency, it's a failed presidency. It's a presidency that has abused the Constitution and the powers of the office.

Whether it's misleading the American people into the war in Iraq, not preparing our troops for battle as they should have been prepared, making certain that he endorses a warrantless wiretapping program, telling the Department of Justice not to enforce the law last week when we come to contempt of Congress by members of his administration -- all of these things suggest to me that this administration has gone far beyond the exercise of political power.

They have abused the Constitution in some respects. And I think it's appropriate for us to take the censure resolution up. It is short of impeachment, but it's an important debate.

BLITZER: Several Republicans, who are concerned about the war in Iraq, have suggested that you, the Democratic leadership in the Senate, you and Harry Reid, the majority leader, are more interested in political theater than in substantive policy. That's why you stapled that all-nighter this past week. I want you to listen to what the number two Republican in the Senate, Trent Lott, said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TRENT LOTT, R-MISS.: Now, the Senate is spiraling into the ground to a degree that I have never seen before. And I've been here a long time. All modicum of courtesy is going out the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you say to the criticism that you were more interested in scoring political points than in trying to forge some sort of bipartisan, cooperative legislation, finding a middle ground, if you will? DURBIN: As a result of the work this week, an all-night session, a sleepless night for senators -- and I might remind the listeners that our soldiers and their families spend many sleepless nights. But after one sleepless night, we went from two Republicans supporting our position to four. We need 11.

I think if we continue the pressure of this debate, if we keep it front and center, that we'll have more Republicans joining us. Ultimately, we're going to bring this war to an end in a responsible way. Emotions will run high during this debate. That's to be expected because we're dealing with life and death issues.

BLITZER: But Harry Reid then cut off debate after that one sleepless night and said, "You know what? No more debate on Iraq." Effectively, no more other resolutions that some other members, Democrats and Republicans, wanted to consider, until September.

And you're hearing criticism, especially from somebody like Ken Salazar, who's Democrat from Colorado, Lamar Alexander, who was working with him, on a resolution to enact the Iraq Study Group proposals. Why not let some of these other proposals, these resolutions, come forward for consideration?

DURBIN: Well, we will return to the defense authorization bill. We'll return to the debate on Iraq. I don't know if it will be before the August recess. Most certainly, no later than September we're going to be back on this debate.

We want all of the members of the Senate to go home having cast their votes either for the president's policy or against it, speak to their voters and return, reassess the situation in September. Senator Reid and I, and the Democratic caucus, are committed to a full-scale debate on this war in Iraq. It's the most important single issue facing this nation.

BLITZER: I'll leave you with this quote, this sound bite from Senator John McCain, an ardent supporter of this strategy in Iraq. And I want to get your reaction. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: The Middle East will still be a tinder box which our defeat could ignite in a regional war that will imperil our vital interests at risk there and draw us into a longer and far more costly war. The prospects of genocide in Iraq, in which we will be morally complicit, is still as real consequence of our withdrawal today as it was yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In other words, he's saying as bad as the situation is right now, Senator Durbin, it could be a lot worse if the U.S. were to withdraw quickly from Iraq. What do you say to Senator McCain?

DURBIN: The key to the Iraqis' future are the Iraqi people and their leaders. They have to step up, decide to make the important political decisions, which they've postponed and avoided. They have to step up and defend their own country. They have to decide who's going to govern, and whether they will be a nation. They have put to rest a civil war, which, unfortunately has been going on way too long.

And then the nations in the region, which have held back because of the United States lead in this invasion of Iraq, need to step forward to stabilize the borders of Iraq. We could keep American troops there 10 months or 10 years. We would still face this same challenge. I think most people across America think it's time for American soldiers to start coming home and for the Iraqis to stand up and defend their own nation.

BLITZER: Dick Durbin is the number two senator. Thanks very much, Senator Durbin, for coming in.

DURBIN: Thank you, Wolf.

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