CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT 18:00

HEADLINE: John Ashcroft Steps Aside From White House Investigation; FDA Bans Ephedra

GUESTS: Charles Schumer, John Zogby, Ron Faucheux

BYLINE: Mary Snow, Karl Penhaul, David Grange Casey Wian,Bill Tucker, Judith Torres, Peter Viles, Suzanne Malveaux, Kelli Arena, John King

HIGHLIGHT:
Attorney General John Ashcroft steps aside from an investigation into CIA leaks. The Food and Drug Administration says the weight loss aid ephedra is too dangerous. As the new year approaches, cities around the world are on high alert for a terrorist attack.

BODY:
KING: Ambassador Joe Wilson tonight told CNN he is pleased with Attorney General Ashcroft's decision. He said-quote-"The fact that attorney general recused himself indicates that administration wants to avoid the potential perception of a conflict of interests. And that's a good thing."

Democrats for months have demanded that Attorney General Ashcroft reduce himself from any role in this investigation.

Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, was among the earliest and most vocal voices in that debate. And he joins us now here in the studio.

Senator, I'm struck by one thing Attorney General Ashcroft's deputy said in announcing this decision for the attorney general to step aside. He said it was made-quote-"based on the totality of the circumstances and the facts and evidence developed at this stage of the investigation."

Does that tell you that they came upon something that left the attorney general no choice?

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Well, clearly, it seemed to me from the outset-and I've been calling for the attorney general to recuse himself and for the special counsel for months-that there was a potential conflict, because, even if the names that were mentioned all have to deal with the attorney general every day.

So, could they have stumbled on something new that magnifies this? Possibly. But a guy like Comey, who I think has a lot of integrity, the deputy attorney general, I think that he would have seen the conflict from the outset. And had he been there, this might have happened a lot sooner, which would have been better. They would have avoided some of the mistakes they made early on.

KING: So is this the end of the political debate over this? Some Democrats say, it's not good enough. You still have a Republican appointee looking at a Republican administration. Why not go outside to an independent counsel, an independent special prosecutor, not someone who

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUMER: Yes, this is 95 percent of what I've asked for.

When we asked for the special counsel, there were two main issues, No. 1, that that person be allowed to pursue any direction that they wanted to, that they could call into the grand jury or to be interviewed by FBI agents anyone they decided. That's been done, at least if you believe what Comey says. And I believe him.

The second was-and this was a very important part of the special counsel statute-that, if they were blocked, they'd come to Congress and tell us. Comey agreed to that at his nomination hearing when I asked him to do so at the Judiciary Committee's meeting. So the one thing you don't have is someone on the outside completely. That is true.

But Fitzgerald has tremendous integrity. He's like a Comey. They both believe-I truly believe this, and I'm not on their side politically, obviously-but that they believe the integrity of the department and the integrity of their careers is way at the top of their list. So I think we have to give it the benefit of the doubt. Am I going to keep watching it carefully? I was the first one to call for this on the day it happened.

KING: This prosecutor

(CROSSTALK)

KING: ... brought a 22-count indictment against a former Republican governor.

SCHUMER: Exactly.

KING: That has to lead you to believe

(CROSSTALK)

SCHUMER: They are, both of them, Comey and Fitzgerald, are known. In fact, Fitzgerald was my choice for U.S. attorney in New York. And when Illinois grabbed him, Comey came in. So they are-it's strong.

And I think we have to give them the benefit of the doubt at a time when Washington is as partisan as it is. This was a good move, by any stroke. And I spoke to Ambassador Wilson, who I've talked to at length about this. We both agree that we should give it the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean we're not going to watch it carefully.

And one thing that does trouble me up to this point, they haven't empowered a grand jury. Most prosecutors would have said they should have done it a long time ago. But now let's see, with Fitzgerald, a seasoned prosecutor who cares about integrity.

KING: Quickly, you say you to Ambassador Wilson. He is active supporting one of the Democratic candidates for president. He has made appearances criticizing this administration, saying they are on a witch-hunt to get him and get his wife. Is it incumbent on him now, as part of the benefit of the doubt, turn down the volume, let this play out?

SCHUMER: He's entitled to his political views. He served his country as ambassador under a Republican president.

What was done to his wife was a dastardly deed. And the initial comments were outrageous. Oh, well, we've had leaks every day. No, we have never had the leaking the name of an agent for very well possibly a vindictive purpose, because they didn't like what the husband was doing. It jeopardized the lives of many. The CIA is still furious.

I called for this from the beginning. But until the CIA made it clear how furious they were, the Justice Department wasn't moving. So we see continual steps of progress. Does it mean it's a done deal, that we're certain that we're going to get real justice here? No. But does it make it much more likely than you would have thought yesterday? You bet.

KING: On that point, we'll end today, but we will carry this over into a highly charged election year.

Senator Charles Schumer of New York, thank you very much, sir.

SCHUMER: Thank you.