CNN Crossfire - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: CNN CROSSFIRE 16:30

HEADLINE: Will Republican Counter Attack Work?

GUESTS: Kit Bond, Charles Schumer

BYLINE: Robert Novak, Paul Begala

HIGHLIGHT:
President Bush strikes back at the Democrats, but is he sending the right message?

BODY:
NOVAK: Senator Schumer, very soon in the Senate, you're likely to be having the final version of the Medicare bill, which for the first time will create a new entitlement for senior citizens to pay their prescription drugs.

Are you going out of pure political spite and nastiness vote against this benefit for seniors?

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Well, I haven't yet committed how I'm voting. We were just given the huge bill yesterday at 3. I knew the general provisions, but you know the devil is in the detail.

There are things I like in the bill; there are things I don't like in the bill. What do I like in the bill? I like having a new benefit for senior citizens, and for low-income senior citizens, it does a very good job.

I also like the generic drug provision, which will lower the cost of drugs to everyone, which myself and senator Judd Gregg, a Republican of New Hampshire, offered in the Senate. And they kept that in and prevented the pharmaceutical industry from eating it out-you know, eating it apart.

What I don't like in the bill are a number of different things. The average middle class recipient will not do that well. And I do worry about all of those who now have benefits, better benefits than this program, who will be thrown off and may not get a benefit. That is-or get much worse a benefit. That worries me.

And I particularly don't like-I think it was far too friendly to the pharmaceutical industries in many ways. and I'll just give you one.

The Medicare system is not allowed to bargain with the pharmaceutical industry to lower the price of drugs. The HMOs can, the Medicare can't. Now, Medicare could say if we buy ten million Lipitors, we want to pay less, and they would have bargaining power to do that. That costs the federal government $40 billion.

I don't know why they put that in. That is sort of hard to swallow.

BEGALA: Senator, let me bring-I'm sorry Senator Schumer. Let me bring Senator Bond in on that point.

Someone who does know he supports the bill and strongly, is former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, perhaps America's foremost opponent of Medicare. He famously said he wanted the financing of Medicare to wither on the vine.

Here's what he said in the "Washington Post."

BOND: But wait a minute. He wanted HCFA.

BEGALA: HCFA is the Health Care Financing Agency. It's how we finance Medicare. It's how we finance Medicare, and that's what I said.

BOND: Let's be correct. That's all.

BEGALA: Here's what the speaker says, "Every"-This is what Newt says. "Every conservative member of Congress should vote for this Medicare bill. It is the most important reorganization of our nation's health care system since the original Medicare Bill of 1965."

Now is Newt Gingrich now the party's chief strategist on Medicare again, Senator Bond?

BOND: No, but I think he's a very thoughtful voice. I've read what he has said in the paper. And he said, No. 1, we do provide prescription drugs for the first time for people on Medicare. They're particularly good benefits for the very low-income seniors and for seniors with high drug costs. And those are the people who are really suffering the most.

He also points out that there's means testing. And a lot of people have been worried about providing generous benefits for seniors who may have incomes over $80,000 a year. They don't need it. We don't want taxpayers who are making less than half that having to subsidize their rates.

And finally, he said by bringing in an option for private coverage, it provides some means of giving wider choices to seniors. And we've found out that choices in our competitive economy usually wind up getting better quality at lower prices.

So these are points he has raised in the articles I've read that suggest that this Medicare bill is a significant step in the right direction.

NOVAK: Senator Schumer...

BOND: One that-none of us would have written as it is, if we wrote it by ourselves, but a great compromise.

NOVAK: Senator Schumer, as a leading member of the judiciary committee, you have been in the forefront as a relentless foe of any judge, judicial appointment by the president, that you don't agree with. And you've driven one of his best-qualified appointments, Miguel Estrada, out of the picture by refusing to even give him a vote in the Senate.

And the "Wall Street Journal" last week came up with some memos to senators, Senator Durbin, some memos to Senator Durbin, saying who really is behind this. I want to just read this.

"They"-meaning the special interests-"identified Miguel Estrada as especially dangerous because he has a minimal paper trail, he's Latino and the White House seems to be grooming him for Supreme Court appointment. They want to hold Estrada off as long as possible."

You were just doing the bidding of these special interest groups weren't you?

SCHUMER: Well, Bob, that's as bogus an argument as comes down the pike. There are groups on the conservative side that push for the judges, groups on the liberal side that don't. That's Washington.

And somehow the conservatives are very angry when the liberal groups push for what they want, but are patting the conservative groups-not you, but you're just figurative here.

Are patting the conservative groups on the back when they influence themselves.

We have fought, and we have successful opposed six now of 174 judges. That's what the Founding Fathers wanted us to do, Bob, not to rubberstamp every presidential proposal.

The ones we have gone against are either way out of the mainstream, that's five of them. Or Miguel Estrada, the fellow you mentioned, refused to answer the most obvious questions. What's your view of the First Amendment and how expansive it should be?

NOVAK: Senator, we've got to take a break.

And when we come back, we'll ask Senator Schumer what he thinks about a potential challenge from America's mayor, Rudy Giuliani.

And right after the break, Wolf Blitzer has the latest on new attacks against coalition forces in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf. Time now for "Rapid Fire," where the questions come faster than special interest lobbyists flocking around a Bush energy bill.

In the CROSSFIRE from Capitol Hill, Republican Senator Kit Bond of Missouri and Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer of New York.

NOVAK: Senator Schumer, the Marist College poll shows that Rudy Giuliani 51 percent, Chuck Schumer 45 percent. Do you lie awake nights praying that Rudy Giuliani won't run against you next year?

SCHUMER: No, I just do my job as senator, and I look forward. And it seems to work out when you pay attention to your job, not look over your shoulder at your opponents.

BEGALA: Senator Bond, let me ask you about the energy bill. John McCain, respected Republican, your colleague and friend, called it a turkey stuffed with special interest tax breaks. Why did you vote for that turkey?

BOND: Well, I wish the Democrats would let us bring it to the floor for a vote. But it provides one million jobs; it deals with the problems we have in energy.

We haven't had an energy policy for decades. And as a result, all of us are going to get killed with high prices. This brings in renewable fuel so we'll be getting fuel from Iowa and Missouri, rather than Saudi Arabia.

And that is a good bargain, not only for farmers, but for consumers and producers who use petroleum and other energy.

NOVAK: Senator Schumer, you have not yet endorsed any one of the fine nine candidates running for the Democratic presidential nomination. Is that because you don't think any of them come up to your standard?

SCHUMER: No, you know, I think the primaries are a crucible. You know, it's like a steel furnace, and it burns hot. And some candidates break in there and others of them come out tempered and stronger. I'm waiting to see how, actually as we go through the primaries, the candidates react.

BEGALA: Senator Bond, Wolf Blitzer is reporting that al Qaeda may be planning new attacks on America. Given that, was your party and our president wise to invest a trillion dollars of our money in tax breaks, mostly for the rich, and only $44 billion in homeland security?

BOND: That's an absolute slanted question, Paul, that only a partisan Democrat would come up with.

BEGALA: Thank you.

BOND: Our economy is starting to grow. We need to get the economy growing. We've put money in the hands of small businesses who are creating jobs. We're getting out of the recession that began in 2000 and was made worse by the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

BEGALA: Senator Kit Bond, Republican from Missouri, thank you for joining us. Senator Charles Schumer, Democrat of New York. Two of the Senate's finest, Thank you for both very much for taking time on a Friday afternoon.