Oppose The Second Chance Act

Floor Speech

OPPOSE THE SECOND CHANCE ACT -- (House of Representatives - May 16, 2007)

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Mr. CARTER. I thank my good friend and fellow judge from Texas.

I would like to ask a couple of questions. This Second Chance Act is a very new concept in criminal justice from my viewpoint. When you point out that we are actually going to create a series of benefits for people who have committed felony crimes that are not available to the average American citizen, not even available to those people who stand in harm's way and stand on the wall to protect our Nation every night from harm, and yet they are going to be available to people who commit acts, felony acts, punishable by long terms in the penitentiary.

I want to get clear exactly this Second Chance Act and these benefits, almost entitlements that are being created by this bill, does that pertain to only people who are incarcerated in Federal penitentiaries or does it expand to the States and localities?

Mr. GOHMERT. I appreciate the question, and the answer is that this is such a big-hearted bill from the majority that it will be able to provide grants to people in Federal prisons, after they are released from Federal prison, people in State prisons, people in county jails.

We are going to make this program, and this is just a start. This $360 million really is just seed money to see how many we can help with that and then take off after that. This is just the beginning. But the answer is it will be for anyone who commits a serious enough offense or alleged offense to get themselves locked up wherever they get locked up in the United States.

Mr. CARTER. I apologize to my colleague, Mr. Gohmert. I didn't hear all of the benefits because I came in on the tail-end, but you and I have talked about this briefly. But this training and finding jobs benefit, would that include being able to get a grant to say attend the University of Texas or your beloved Texas A&M University?

Mr. GOHMERT. It will provide training education grants. It is open-ended enough, that is a possibility, yes.

Mr. CARTER. So you could apply for a grant to attend the college or university of your choice?

Mr. GOHMERT. There are organizations that could apply for the grants to assist in that education, yes.

Mr. CARTER. I think you will agree with me at least in the Texas prison system, an ambitious prisoner who is trying to turn his life around can get a bachelor's degree, can also get a master's degree, and I suppose if he stayed in prison long enough, he can get a doctor's degree. One school that has correspondence courses is the University of Maryland, which is not far from here, and a prisoner in the Texas prison system can get the degree of his choice if he is willing to work hard enough there.

I happen to know in the Texas prison system one of the most sought-after jobs, and I point out jobs where you work for the skill, is in the print shop with very high tech print training. And most of the people who finish that training, and I have actually had prisoners that I have sent to prison who have asked not to be paroled until they have completed their term of working in the print shop because after they have done their print apprenticeship, they could get jobs coming straight out of prison at $60,000 to $75,000 a year as a master printer. It is not like we are not offering an opportunity to work your way to success in prison today; would you agree with that?

Mr. GOHMERT. Yes, that is absolutely true. But another dimension that is added to this is the fact that it can go on beyond your incarceration.

You and I both agree that when it comes to retraining and education and drug and alcohol treatment, we really do need to do a better job of that in prisons. But this goes even beyond that, and there is no end in sight. Like I said, I tried to end some of these benefits at 6 months after release. One of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle asked me what was so magic about 6 months after release from prison. I said there was nothing magic
about it. I think the training and education should end when you are released, but since I am a Republican and I am in the minority, I knew that they didn't want to end it the day you got out of prison. I was hopeful they would be willing to stop spending tax dollars for criminals who had been incarcerated at least 6 months after they are released. Unfortunately, they voted that down. At this point it is open end. As you are aware, we have never continued to provide benefits to convicted felons after they get out of prison.

Mr. CARTER. Right now you are talking about $350 million. If this program continues the way most programs that we breathe life into in Congress, then it will continue to grow like mushrooms after a rain, and at some point in time, this theoretically could go on forever in the life of a prisoner. But did you say they are also being guaranteed medical benefits?

Mr. GOHMERT. It is not a guarantee, but it is the provision that there are grants available to provide medical care, open-ended medical care. I tried to limit it to 6 months after prison. It should be limited to the day they walk out.

I tried to limit it to no plastic surgery in prison. They didn't do that. So, yes. You can continue to apply for medical care.

Mr. CARTER. So if I understand what you are talking about here, we have people in the United States today that work 10 or 12-hour days, some of them 6 days a week, and they are struggling to pay their own medical bills and pay for health care insurance. They are asking us, crying out to us for help on paying their medical bills.

So there is an easy solution to their problem. Under this bill, quickly get a handgun and commit a felony. You serve a little time, and you are back out with the ability to get grants to pay for your medical bills.

It reminds me of stories that we have heard and experienced of the guy who just before Christmas throws a brick through a window so he can spend a warm night and have Christmas dinner in the county jail. There are people who do that. You know that happens and I know that happens. But is that what we want? Are we saying that the good-heartedness of the American people, and I think there are good-hearted people that are behind thing.

I don't think they have thought it out, and I am not for punishing criminals. I'm for giving them a start, but what do we owe to the people who have violated the laws of our society? I think we owe them a fair chance, but I don't think we owe them an open-ended chance for the rest of perpetuity.

Mr. GOHMERT. You make a great point about this being just the start, the well over $360 million, but I love Ronald Reagan's old quote about, beginning a government program is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that we. Have and so if Reagan was right about that, just beginning a program like this means as long as there's a United States, it's probably going to have a life.

Mr. CARTER. I think they told us that that $25 million was all food stamps was ever going to cost us. I don't even know what the number is, the billions of dollars that we are into that now. These programs do tend to have a life of their own.

I thank you for raising this issue. I think this issue is important for the Members of Congress and for America to know that we are, unfortunately, starting down the road of, in my opinion, the possibility of awarding illegal behavior. It concerns me greatly, and I thank you for raising this issue.

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