MSNBC Hardball-Transcript
MSNBC Hardball-Transcript
MATTHEWS: Well, the Democrats are set to debate tonight here in South Carolina. At South Carolina State, they call this place State. In an hour and 15 minutes, were going to see some fireworks tonight. Right now Im joined by a man who is one of the great men of this area, House Democratic whip, I love that word, whip, James Clyburn. He is an alumnus of State.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC), MAJORITY WHIP: Thank you, thank you.
MATTHEWS: Well, you have done the world a favor, bringing us down here. And I know you were instrumental.
CLYBURN: Thank you very much.
MATTHEWS: . in having this happen down here at South Carolina State University. Why did you think it was important for the Democrats to debate here?
CLYBURN: Well, as you know, South Carolina is a state that is in transition in so many ways, and here on this campus 39 years ago, at the same time the event was occurring at Kent State, we had a very unfortunate circumstance occur here. The whole world focused on Kent State. Very few people focused on South Carolina State.
And we have been in sort of a funk ever since. I thought that this debate would be a great way for us to turn the page and move forward into the future with a new beginning here in Orangeburg and at State.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MATTHEWS: Well, tell me about Delano Middleton and Henry Smith and the other fellow. Why did they get killed by the police?
CLYBURN: Well, there was an argument over public accommodations, and of course here on this campus one night while those demonstrations were taking place, February of 1968, a confrontation occurred. Nobody understands exactly why the gunfire broke out, but it did. And when it was all over, there were a bunch of injuries and three students were dead.
And so this sort of launched us into that funk. This community of Orangeburg that I spent a lot of time in when I was a kid. My father pastored here when I was a kid. I spent a lot of time on this campus as a child growing up. I grew up, wanted to go no place but South Carolina State. And so I felt that it was time for us to break out of that.
MATTHEWS: Thirty-nine years ago.
CLYBURN: Thirty-nine years ago.
MATTHEWS: . Sam Hammond was the other fellow. Well, anyway, we have a little surprise for you because we know youre a veteran of the civil rights movement. And we have a couple of people joining us right now. Two gentlemen who spent a lot of time with you while you were a student here at State, South Carolina State University. Here is James Gilliard and Sam Prioleau, who were two of your classmates.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CLYBURN: Hey, Sam.
SAMUEL PRIOLEAU, CLYBURN COLLEGE CLASSMATE: How are you doing?
CLYBURN: Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Mr. Gilliard, thank you.
JAMES GILLIARD, CLYBURN COLLEGE CLASSMATE: How are you doing, Chris?
MATTHEWS: I want you to talk about this fellow here, what kind of a student he was. He had a nickname back then, didnt he?
GILLIARD: Yes. He had a couple of nicknames.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: What was the good one?
GILLIARD: The good one was "Senator."
MATTHEWS: Senator.
GILLIARD: Yes. Sometimes we called him "Sen."
MATTHEWS: Why is that?
GILLIARD: Because he was a diplomat a long time ago. He was a brewing congressman a long time ago.
MATTHEWS: Did he have the political bug back then?
GILLIARD: Yes, he did.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Sam Prioleau, tell me about the civil rights movement and this guy, tear-gassing and all that stuff?
PRIOLEAU: Well, the civil rights movement, Clyburn was one of the leaders on our campus. And when we went down to demonstrate, Clyburn was the leader and one day we went down Russell Street. The policemen watered us down. After they watered us down, they handcuffed him, and put him in the car to lock him up because we were demonstrating going down to Woolworth to try to get a sandwich.
MATTHEWS: What year was that, do you remember?
PRIOLEAU: That was 1959 or 1960.
(CROSSTALK)
PRIOLEAU: Sixty-nine.
MATTHEWS: So Woolworth was segregated then. You couldnt eat at the lunch counter?
PRIOLEAU: No, you could not eat at the lunch counter. So they put him in the back of the car and he said to me, said Sam, take the leadership and take the group on downtown. And I said, OK, I will do. So I started marching down. And there was about a group of about 50 or 100 students behind me.
And when we got to the doors of the Woolworth, there was a policeman there seemed like he was designed as big as an oak tree. He must have been 68", 300 pounds. And he said, OK, come on, youre going to jail with us right now. And I said, no way, Im not going to jail today. No way. Im not being locked up today.
But my job was to come back to the campus and conjure up some money so that all the kids that they had locked up in the picket fence down there, we could buy food to feed them.
MATTHEWS: So you are both heroes of the movement.
PRIOLEAU: Yes, definitely.
MATTHEWS: Thats an amazing war story. Lets talk about the toga party now. Ha!
CLYBURN: The toga party?
MATTHEWS: Yes. Lets take a look at the toga party. We have got a
picture here of this gentleman to my left, the distinguished leader of the
Congress. Here he is in funmore fun days looking like Julius Caesar
himself. There he is. What memories does that bring back? A little less
from the sublime to the ridiculous here?
CLYBURN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING)
CLYBURN: That was from one of the plays I did. I did a number of plays.
MATTHEWS: What was this play? Was this "Julius Caesar"? It is "Julius Caesar, Act IV, Scene ii. Do you remember the lines?
CLYBURN: No.
MATTHEWS: Who were you? Were you Brutus?
CLYBURN: I was never Brutus. See that thing on my head? Julius Caesar. Im always the one that gets betrayed.
MATTHEWS: You were Caesar? Oh, no.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: Et tu, Brutus.
CLYBURN: Yes. I have got something for you though.
MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you.
CLYBURN: I want you to have great memories of here. Were going to give Chris Matthewswere going to make him a great Bulldog.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MATTHEWS: Thank you.
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