MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

Interview

MSNBC Hardball-Transcript

MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Well it‘s begun. In just three days, MSNBC will air the first presidential debate for the year 2008 presidential elections. Eight Democrats will be in Orangeburg, South Carolina on the campus of South Carolina State University for a debate moderated by NBC‘s Brian Williams.

U.S. Congressman Jim Clyburn is the House Majority whip, and a proud graduate of South Carolina State University. Congressman, it‘s great to be here, but it‘s more important to have you here. I want you to raise the curtain on the first of the year, first of the campaign debate among the Democrats. How important is this night in South Carolina, this Thursday?

REP. JIM CLYBURN (D), MAJORITY WHIP: This is going to be a great, great night for South Carolina and for South Carolina State University. As you know, Chris, I bring this up—some people will be upset about it—but that school and that community has been in almost a 40 year funk. You may recall that South Carolina State, like Kent State back in 1968, had some very unfortunate circumstances to occur. You all and this debate will be a part, I think, of getting us beyond that, reclaiming the morale that was on that campus when I was student there.

So I am looking forward to this and I think the candidates will find a tremendous laboratory when they get down there. They will begin to see what it‘s like to campaign among agriculture workers and farmers, what it is like to campaign among manufacturers, as you will find up in the (INAUDIBLE) of our state.

You find down in the low country, where the tourism trade is so big, Charleston, Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach—South Carolina is a laboratory for candidates, and I think they will find themselves sharpening their lines, getting their act together. It‘s going to be great for them.

MATTHEWS: You know, as you know, growing up in this country, you saw that all the Democratic and Republican primaries were always in pretty much all white areas, like New Hampshire and Iowa. Now South Carolina, which is black and white, is going to be a premiere state. How important do you think it is going to be down there, who wins the South Carolina primary, come early next year?

CLYBURN: Well, if were one of the analysts looking back on this primary after January 29th of next year, I would be looking not just how well the candidate did in that state, but I would be going section by section to see how well did that candidate do in the P.D. (ph) area, where most of the rural voters are. How well did that candidate do in the low country, Charleston, Brickyard (ph), Dorchester, where most of the black voters are, and around Columbia? How well did that candidate do up in the Piedmont, where you have a manufacturing base.

I would be looking back and trying to determine how that candidate connects with various voters. You have a small state, a laboratory there. I really believe that the candidates are going to come out of this experience much better candidates. And I think it will overcome what we had the last two cycles, when Kerry did not do well, simply because he could not connect with significant portions of Democrat voters. And, of course, Al Gore suffered the same consequence.

MATTHEWS: What where you able to vote for the first time, sir?

CLYBURN: I voted for the first time in 1961. Luckily for me, South Carolina has never had the kinds of issues that you had in some other parts of the state. Even my parents were registered voter when I was growing up. We had a lot of other things though that people don‘t think about. We had schemes, what I call creative devices, full slate voting, numbered posts, runoff requirements. All of these things were designed to neutralize or in some way dilute black voters. But, by in large, blacks were able to register and vote. They just never could get their votes counted.

And then you may recall we had a white only the primary in South Carolina until 1948. Though my parents could vote, they could only vote for the president, because they could not participate in the local election elections, because they were all controlled in a privately owned Democratic primary.

MATTHEWS: When did you think—You ran for the House—what, you have been in about 20 years now, right?

CLYBURN: I have been here in Congress—this is my 15th year. I first ran for office in 1970, under the old full slate voting, which meant that in Charleston County, where I was running from, I was among—there were 11 seats open. So it meant that for anybody to go to the polls and vote for me, they would had to vote against me ten times, because in order for your vote to count, you have to vote for all 11 vacancies. If you went in and said, well, I‘m only interested in Jim Clyburn, nobody else, your vote would not count. That way, though you could vote for Jim Clyburn, you had to vote for 10 other people may not have known, or may not have even liked in order for your vote to count. That is how they kept us out of the office.

MATTHEWS: Boy, they spent a lot of I.Q. denying you people rights down there.

CLYBURN: Absolutely. I always said that South Carolina is a very, very creative state, never very contentious, just very creative.

MATTHEWS: Well maybe that creativity will be applied to greater opportunities for everybody in the future. It looks like it is. And congratulations for this, a big event at South Carolina State University, your alma mater. Thank you Jim Clyburn, one of the top Democrats in the House.

Source