CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00

HEADLINE: Interview With Colin Powell; Interview With Don Evans

GUESTS: Colin Powell, Don Evans, Dianne Feinstein, Mitch McConnell, Sari Nusseibah, Ami Ayalon, Dick Armey, Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, Jeralyn Merritt

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, John King, Jane Arraf, Chris Burns, Bruce Morton

HIGHLIGHT:
Interview with Secretary of State Colin Powell. Then, interview with Commerce Secretary Don Evans.

BODY:
BLITZER: President Bush insisting this past week that good things are indeed happening in Iraq.

Welcome back to LATE EDITION.

The question, though, of how to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq is a very contentious issue here in Washington, on Capitol Hill.

We're joined now by two key members of the United States Senate. In Louisville, Kentucky, Senator Mitch McConnell, he's the Senate's second ranking Republican. And here in Washington, California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein, a key member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senators, welcome back to LATE EDITION.

And, Senator Feinstein, I'll begin with you. You decided to vote against the president in favor of the amendment to divide in half the grants versus loans in the $20 billion reconstruction package for Iraq.

But is there a compromise that would be acceptable to you now, since the House of Representatives said it should be all grant?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, what we did was essentially compromise. Half of the $20 billion would be a loan. I think Lindsey Graham well described the rationale for this. I think it's really a good measure, and I think it keeps the United States in a very strong position to go to other nations and say, look, you know, if you forgive your loans, we'll forgive our loan. I think -- and there's a loan to forgive, so I think that makes some sense.

My own view is that we've now spent over $166 billion on this war. I really think that's enough. I think it's very important that the Pentagon husband this supplemental. I suspect in certain parts of it there may be things for R&D on this or that. But I think the Congress, particularly the Senate, the votes, if there's another supplemental request, will be very difficult to come by.

BLITZER: And Senator Feinstein, as you know, Senator McConnell, by no means alone. Other Democrats are even going further, like Senator Ted Kennedy, for example. Listen to what he said on the Senate floor this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: The greatest mistake we can make in Congress, as the people's elected representatives, is to support and finance a go-it- alone, do-it-because-I-say-so policy that leaves young Americans increasingly at risk in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator McConnell, you were just there a week or so ago. You came back enthusiastic about what you saw, just like Secretary Evans.

But what do you make about this split over the funding, how the U.S. should pay for the reconstruction of Iraq, as even, as you know, some of your fellow Republicans think it should -- at least part of it should be a loan?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: Well, as you know, the president had a very good week. People were criticizing him because he had no international support. He went to the U.N. and got a unanimous vote for a resolution that essentially confirms that the U.S. ought to play the lead role in Iraq. France voted for it, Germany voted for it, Russia voted for it, and even Syria voted for it. That was a big step in the right direction.

We did have a narrow defeat in the Senate that same day, but the House did the right thing, in my judgment. And I'm optimistic that at the end of the reconciliation process between the House and the Senate, the conference, it'll come out the way the president wanted.

And let me tell you why it ought to come out that way, Wolf. We can't go to the donor conference in Madrid next week and ask countries around the world to contribute in the form of grants if we have just decided to send a bill to Iraq, thereby encumbering their oil, which is their only resource to pay us back in the future. That's not the message we want to send.

BLITZER: Let's let Senator Feinstein respond to that.

What about that? The president is asking France, Germany, Russia, none of whom so far say they're ready to put up any money to help in the reconstruction of Iraq, but the Senator Mcconnell makes a fair point. Why ask these other countries for grants if the U.S. is willing not to make it all a grant?

FEINSTEIN: Well, we're making a $10 billion grant to reconstruction. We're making a $65 billion grant to keep our military there, to do what has to be done to secure the peace. And the total would be $166 billion.

Now, that may not be all in reconstruction, but we've also got military participating in reconstruction. I mean, I'm one that believes that our allied community and others should be brought into it.

And, you know, I must say one thing that I'm mostly -- very concerned with, serving on the Intelligence Committee, is that Iraq becomes the focus for a joining-together of terrorist groups.

BLITZER: Is that happening, though?

FEINSTEIN: I think that is happening, and I think it's very serious for the future. And I think when our allies and nations like France and Germany and others began to see this happening, that they will perhaps be more willing to join in this to help us. I think that's the huge danger signal that I see out there in the coming months.

BLITZER: There's another sense of criticism, Senator McConnell, that the president may not be coordinating his strategy, explaining his policy effectively. Listen to the criticism, rather biting, coming from your fellow Republican, Senator Hagel of Nebraska.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: The president must take charge here. And when you have four administration officials out giving four variations of a speech last week -- some real tough, some not so tough, some kind of in the middle -- that doesn't develop confidence in a strategy, in a policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Does he have a point, Senator Hagel?

MCCONNELL: Look, I think the strategy is clear. It's to rebuild Iraq, which is the way to get the troops home.

If you look at this supplemental that we just passed this week, the vast majority of it is for keeping our military over there. That's what is really expensive. And the way to get the military home is to get the reconstruction job done quickly and correctly.

I met a general from the 101st Airborne up in Mosul, up in the north. He said we've made more progress in six months in Iraq than we have in six years in Bosnia.

A lot's going on that's very positive. Don Evans was talking about it, but it's worth repeating. A hundred and seventy newspapers -- that's more diversity than we have, certainly, in my hometown or in California. Thirteen thousand construction projects that have been completed. Fifteen hundred schools that have been renovated -- that's still under way. Sixty thousand people in the new Iraqi security force, which thwarted two attacks this week -- one in the Baghdad Hotel and the other on the Turkish Embassy.

Look, it takes a little while to get this job done, but the way to save money in the long run is get the reconstruction done right, get the democracy up and running, and then the troops can come home.

BLITZER: Senator Feinstein, you serve on the Intelligence Committee. Does the U.S. have good intelligence right now? You can look back and say, maybe we had bad intelligence going into the war, since they still haven't found the weapons of mass destruction, still haven't found Saddam Hussein. But right now, are you satisfied that the U.S. intelligence community knows what it's doing, knows what the situation in Iraq is?

FEINSTEIN: Not entirely. One of the things that's come through to me, based on reading and rereading the National Intelligence Estimates and the daily intelligence, is that a lot of the key judgments that were made were not correct judgments, in my view.

We have put a great deal of additional money into intelligence. The number is classified, but I can assure you, it is a lot of money.

One of the things that hasn't been done is any restructuring of the intelligence community, which, structure-wise, is still based on a post-Cold War kind of structure, not an asymmetrical world.

And although I think George Tenet and others have really made heroic efforts to recruit, and the president has announced the setting up of an Iraqi intelligence service, I think we have a long way to go in that regard.

BLITZER: I'm going to get back to this. We only have a few seconds before we have to take a commercial break, Senator McConnell, but I want you to respond to this notion out there that the American public was sold a bill of goods, presumably, the allegation, before the war, about the imminent threat coming from Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

MCCONNELL: Look, everybody agreed on the weapons-of-mass- destruction issue. The Germans, the French, the Russians -- we all believed he had weapons of mass destruction. That was not even in contention.

The fact that we've had some difficulty finding weapons, even though we've found programs, is disturbing. But if we were fooled, everybody else in the world was fooled. Everybody thought he had weapons of mass destruction, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right.

FEINSTEIN: Yes, but that's not the point. Let me just -- everybody didn't attack Iraq. Everybody didn't say one of the reasons for the attack is because we believe there's a threat in the area...

MCCONNELL: But, Dianne...

FEINSTEIN: ... and we believe there may be even a threat to the United States...

MCCONNELL: But, Dianne...

FEINSTEIN: ... and then to go in -- let me just finish -- and go to over 600 sites and find nothing. And I sat there, Mitch. I listened to David Kay's report, and there is basically nothing except, perhaps, a little botulinum (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in somebody's refrigerator. That's it.

And that concerns me greatly, because that was one of the reasons...

BLITZER: All right...

FEINSTEIN: ... that I voted to authorize use of force.

BLITZER: ... Senator McConnell, go ahead and respond.

MCCONNELL: Yes, look, that wasn't the only reason that we liberated Iraq. There were plenty of other reasons. This was just one of many.

It was still the right thing to do. I bet Dianne is not sad that Saddam Hussein is gone. Not many Americans are. This was clearly the right thing to do.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to...

FEINSTEIN: Let me just respond to that one point.

BLITZER: Right after the break. Right after the break...

FEINSTEIN: OK.

BLITZER: ... because we have to take a commercial break. You'll have a chance to respond. Senator McConnell will have plenty of opportunity to respond, as well.

More of our conversation with both of these senators when we come back. They'll also, by the way, be taking your phone calls. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to LATE EDITION. We're continuing our conversation with two U.S. senators, Republican Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, Democrat Dianne Feinstein of California.

Senator Feinstein, Senator McConnell made a fair point. You're not sad that the U.S. went to war and removed Saddam Hussein from power?

FEINSTEIN: Look, Saddam Hussein was a pariah, let there be no doubt, pariah for his own people. And the things he did I think are legion. I think we all know that.

But the point was, is it our obligation, unless there is a real threat, to go in there and take down that government, with a view of taking out that leadership? And I think that's a very difficult question for this nation.

Maybe if we had the whole world with us, that's one thing...

BLITZER: Because you supported the president's -- the resolution...

FEINSTEIN: I supported it, absolutely.

BLITZER: But do you regret that now?

FEINSTEIN: I don't think I regret it yet, because I'm hopeful that weapons of mass destruction will be found. But the major reason that I voted was because of what I heard in intelligence about weapons of mass destruction, about chemical, about biological, about the fact that they've been deployed, that maybe the orders had been given to use them. That kind of thing.

That added the element of potential threat to it, which was not present without that.

BLITZER: We may have heard, Senator McConnell, in the last few days once again from Osama bin Laden, a new audiotape released by Al Jazeera, and I want to play an excerpt from that audiotape. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): Any government that's formed by America will be an agent, a puppet government, just like all the other governments in the area, like Karzai or Mahmud Abbas, that were set up to shed the blood of Muslims.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now, the president was asked about that audiotape earlier today. I want you to listen to what he said in Bangkok.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The bin Laden tape should say to everybody, the war on terror goes on, that there's still a danger for free nations, and that free nations need to work together more than ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Are you frustrated, are you as frustrated, Senator McConnell, as so many others are, that the United States, even now, more than two years after 9/11, has not been able to find Osama bin Laden?

MCCONNELL: Sure, we'd like to find him.

I also went to Afghanistan last week, and we're, you know, have a sense of where he might be, and we're certainly looking for him, and for Taliban, who are hiding over in Pakistan, who would like to try to get back into power.

Look, the war on terror is a difficult undertaking. We haven't gotten Saddam Hussein yet either, and we hope to get him.

Nobody said this would be easier, but the world is a lot safer as a result of the new regimes in Afghanistan, a free Afghanistan, a free Iraq. Both of these were havens for the kinds of terrorist thugs that have become the principal challenge to the United States and to the civilized world in the 21st century.

FEINSTEIN: May I say something on that?

BLITZER: Go ahead.

FEINSTEIN: One of the interesting things about the tape, I think, is the fact that he mentioned Mahmud Abbas, who, as I recall, resigned in early September. Now, whether this tape...

BLITZER: The Palestinian prime minister.

FEINSTEIN: Yes. Now, whether the tape was done prior to September, but it sort of puzzles me if it wasn't done prior to September, why he would mention that.

Essentially, I agree with what Mitch said. I think that's the correct assessment.

BLITZER: Is your bottom line -- I'm switching very briefly, we only have a few seconds left -- Senator McConnell, that the president could have a political problem in seeking reelection because of what's happening in Iraq?

MCCONNELL: No, I don't think so. I think the American people still support the policy. I think they're glad Saddam Hussein is gone. The man murdered 300,000 of his own people. This is a mission I think Americans can be proud of. And we're safer here at home because all of these gangsters are somewhere else in the world...

BLITZER: All right.

MCCONNELL: ... trying to do us harm.

BLITZER: And on the latest CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll, Senator Feinstein, had the president's job-approval rating going back up to 56 percent, which is a pretty hefty job-approval rating, even in the midst of some economic bad times and what's happening in Iraq.

Very briefly, California. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor of California, the governor-elect of California. Does this mean that California is in play in the presidential contest next November?

FEINSTEIN: California is always in play. California politically is a very volatile state.

And what was interesting to me to watch during the recall campaign was the amount of people that turned out to hear Schwarzenegger.

Now, the question is, can he deliver? Can he work with a Democratically controlled legislature? Can he resolve the structural imbalance of the deficit? Can he resolve the car tax, because the $4 billion goes directly for police, fire and local emergency employees. Cities and counties aren't going to like the loss of those dollars, I can promise you that.

BLITZER: We'll see how he does. We have to leave it, unfortunately, right there. Senator Feinstein...

FEINSTEIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: ... thanks very much for joining us.

Senator McConnell, welcome back from Iraq. Good to have you on our program, as usual, as well.

MCCONNELL: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.